Not that I am championing for the migratration from Catholic to the protestant church, but there are some Catholic practices which are unorthodox and defy the basic teachings of the bible…

1. Intercession:
Rom 8:34 elaborates that intercession should be through Jesus Christ.
Rom 5:12, Ecc 7:20 explains that all humankind are sinners
Why then would intercession be done through Mary Magdalene, a fellow human being (who was simply used as a vessel)

2. Repentance:
2 Chron 7:14 advises sinners to seek forgiveness through prayer and reformed behaviour.
Why then would sinners be required to ‘confess’ their sins through a ‘father’ (another sinner as per Rom 5:12 indicated above ?

3. Addition of bible books
Deut 12:31, Prov 30:5 - 6, Jer 26:2 cautions on removal or addition of books to what already exists, why then were 7 books added to the catholic church ?

4. Concept of sainthood
In the Catholic church, saints are people who are exceptionally good or ‘holy’/ people who led a life of ‘heroic virtue’.
How is this so and as per numerous verses quoted above, all humans are sinners ?
Furthermore, who investigated these saints, and what was the level of investigation, to truly term them as holy? Were they under 24hr surveillance to establish that they did not live a double life

5. Imagery and Idolatry
Exod 20:4, Lev 26:1, Deut: 4:16 thoroughly cautions against creating an image of a man/ woman as that is tantamount to idolatry.
Despite this clear deterrent, the Catholic faith has manufactured their own image of how they think Jesus looked like, and this manufactured image is hang everywhere, from homes to churches and is worshiped.

They have also have created a carving of a man on a crucifix which they wear on their necks and use in prayer, contrary to above quoted scriptures.

6. Church structure
1 Cor 12:28 states that God apointed 5 principles to the church: prophets, pastors, apostles, teachers and evangelists. The Catholic faith has defied this apointment and are operating on their own arrangement.

7. Forced celibacy for priests
1 Tim 3:2 Instructs that the overseer of the church should have one wife, contrary to the celibacy enforced by the Catholic church which was introduced in 1079AD

8. Misuse of the title ‘father’
Mat 23:9 Prohibits misuse of the word father: ‘Do not call anyone on earth your father; for One is your Father, He who is in heaven.’

I am not bashing the Catholic church but simply quoting scriptures from the bible. If anyone was to tell me that something I was doing was not right, with reference from the bible, then I would change my ways.

If you do not have answers for all the above call outs and still live ignorantly, then you are beyond redemption.

Kwanini wanadinya watoto? Tuanzie hapo. Religion is absurd,its all bickering,greed,fornications and deek measuring on who’se god is the true one.One particular cult gets to fight their god’s war,ingine ni ng’ombe is god,another overweight dude telling you karma is a bitch,there’s a chap who claims to be god himself and spirit to boot and was born of a virgin,zingine you have to enrich the pasta in order to receive the word since people are too dumb to comprehend,others have weed to elevate you to a god like status[SIZE=1]i might actually like that one[/SIZE]
[SIZE=5]is there a true religion and if so,why is it better than the rest?[/SIZE]

  1. Intercession is not new. Many meetings are held upstairs. Hata Christ alishasema tajiri alituma maskini amwambie Ibrahimu ampatie maji. Kumaanisha wale wametangulia peponi huweza kuwakilisha maombi ya walio hai.
  2. Repentance haina ubaya to confess to a priest. In fact ni vizuri. Hata pia unaweza confess kwa mwenzako, lakini chunga asikuuze. James 5:16
  3. Sainthood is normal and the living can affect the departed. What the living faithful agree on here is agreed on un the heavens.
  4. Jesus was not caucasian, but early Christian sculptors did not know any better, but those are not idols. Kama ni idol basi pia wewe usiweke picha ya baba yako kwa ukuta.
  5. Evangelism, apostleship, teaching etc are just some of the callings and gifts God gives. Intercession is a gift too, and many others.
  6. Forced celibacy; no one us forced to become a preist. Paul saud those who are called and are eunuchs by choice have a better chance to dedicate themselves to ministry. If you cant do ut, do not become a preist. Huwezu jngia nembers ckub hakaf uende kufanya mambo yako ya kijinga huko.
  7. Misuse of Father: Hiyo verse umeweka hapo…wewe huwezi ita baba yako, Dad? Calling him Dad in the sense of God (Abba- Eli), is what is disallowed.
  8. Addition of books: Actually, ni watu wa juzi ndio walitoa vitabu kwa biblia. Biblia ikikuwa ba vitabu vingi sana cannon ikatoa vingine.

The whole idea of a thing called god was meant for people who are afraid of using their brains. Naskia kuna wengine wanangoja kuchukuliwa waende kula asali na maziwa


They are all full of filth, unaruka mkojo unakanyanga mavi. Just do away with any and seek God without fear, he was there before any religion and books and will be there forever. Build your own spiritual alter and stop relying on others as your spiritual leaders. You avoid confusion, manipulation and get yourself off a lot of burden

Nimeshangaa @Purple hajacomment hapa.

Hehe waafrika since wapewe bibilia wamekua wajinga kuruka. Why stress your mind with foreign cults. Set yourself free

You cannot get a meaningful debate here on Catholic Roman pagan based practises. Most of us here atheists, agnostics, animists, witchdoctors and irreligious

Religion really fucked up Africans…kwanza that gibberish people do when they pray “ati speaking in tongues” sijui “jabaaaabbba-sonkooookooro-kukkuuuriukkuuu…shaaaabbbba”…ni vile tu murder ni crime ningekuwa na uwa watu kila Sunday.

You make some pretty valid points, but here are a few contentions with some of the points you raise:

  1. One dead man asks another dead man to request water from a third dead man (Rich man, Lazarus, Abraham) and that is evidence that the dead can make intercession for the living?

Can you find anywhere in NT text where Christians pray through the dead?

  1. I agree with you on 2. I actually find no problem with this doctrine, if it’s as you put it. I would, however, have a problem if the doctrine suggested that you MUST confess to the Father to be forgiven.

  2. On 3, I disagree. How can the living affect the departed? Can you find any instance in NT text where the Church prays for the dead.

It is determined for man to live and to die and after that judgement Heb 9:27. After death, comes judgement…

The verse you use doesn’t mean we can influence the dead. Every prayer is subject to Gods will. So, if we agree on earth that the devil should be forgiven, shall he be forgiven?

You can’t use that verse to justify praying for the dead. The Apostles were the custodians of doctrine. Find any text where they prayer for the dead or anyone in their Churches prayed for the dead.

You can’t interpret the same scripture the Apostles read and come to conclusions they didn’t come to and claim to be right.

  1. Do you bow to graven images? If you do, it’s wrong. Are the graven images considered holy? Then they are idols.

What’s the difference between the sculptures in the catholic church and those in the Hindu temple?

  1. I don’t have much to addressing Church structure. Just one thing, how can the Pope change the word of God. He has made changes to the Lord’s prayer… ‘Corrected’ it so to speak.

That’s wrong. The Church has never had a singular final authority who was considered infallible!

    1. 8 Maybe later. First 5 first?

Do you get my objections? If you do, address where you think I misinterpreted.

  1. Where in the bible is this directive on intercession found? What happens when someone dies? Doesn’t the soul rest and awaits judgement day and that is when it will be awaken? (Except Elijah and a few more who went to heaven directly) It is clear in the scripture that we should pray to God through Jesus.

  2. The scripture you are quoting simply advocates for sharing one’s sin in order to reduce the burden of it/ heal, it is not a prerequisite for forgiveness. However, in the Catholic church it is mandatory for one to confess his sins to a priest, contrary to the holy scripture

  3. Where is this found in the bible? You can not make your own theology and claim that it is accepted in heaven. The bible remains the guide here. Still, was there a 24 hour surveillance on these saints to truly establish the lives they lived? No. All humans are sinners

  4. Nikieka picha ya baba yangu najua ni baba yangu na sieki ndio nimwabudu. Picha ya that Caucasian man is normally worshiped and that is idolatry as per Deut 4:16: so that you do not become corrupt and make for yourselves an idol, an image of any shape, whether formed like a man or a woman.
    This is a crystal clear instruction.

  5. These 5 principles are not gifts but are APPOINTMENTS that God made in the church. Where in the bible is intercession termed as a gift? Kindly do not create things from your own imagination but quote the bible. The bible is the guide and not your presumptions.

  6. It is a requirement that in order to be a priest you need to be celibate…so if I wanted to pursue pristhood and have a wife, I will not be permitted…contrary to 1 Tim 3:2, where priest are directed to have one wife.

  7. Exactly my point…you only have an earthly father and a heavenly father, why then call another man ‘father’ contrary to Mat: 39

  8. As a man receptive to facts, I have looked this up and you are right. However, find link below which explains on the contardiction of the books to the general concept of Christianity
    Why Were the Books of the Old Testament Apocrypha Rejected as Holy Scripture by the Protestants?

All but one of your responses are neither factual nor bibilical, this means that you are in denial. Kindly let your argument revolve around bibilical scripture and not ‘what you think is generally accepted.’ By so doing, if facts are presented I will migrate from protestant to the Catholic church as soonas yesterday.

Actually I am not catholic, I am not protestant. I am a Christian. One who accepts that he has limited knowledge on what was, is, and will be.

  1. You must realise that I view the bible as a very heavily edited book. It leaves out many aspects of religious practice that were common among many deeply religious people in both Judaism and early Christianity. Eg Judas Maccabaeus saw a vision in which the prophets Jeremiah and Onias (both dead at the time) were giving blessing to the jewish army. You have limited me to the new testament, and to that I will say: If Christ who himself revealed to us his awareness of the existence of the conscious spiritual being of Abraham, Lazurus, and the rich man, who are we to refute it?
  2. A catholic can pray for forgiveness directly. It is allowed
  3. All humans are sinners. But in Judaism and Christianity there are those considered to be outstanding in piety. The jew called them Tzadik. We call them saints.
  4. I am not sure catholics worship those pictures or carvings on church walls either.
  5. You have a right to your opinion. There are intercessors, and there are healers, and there are those who host others and many others. Keeping to a neat list of 5 appointments is also allowed.
  6. Actually catholic deacons are allowed to marry. And the church seems to be ok with deacons having one wife. Other church members can have as many as they wish. Preisthood is something one pursues voluntarily. If you join a fraternity willingly, it is assumed you are ready and able to hold yourself to the set of rules.
  7. :smiley: Actually, I call anyone old enough to be my dad, father. Sue me.
  8. Thanks for looking it up.

I once met a muslim man whose daughter was attacked by an invisible being and sustained scratches and bruises as he watched. I know the man to be a serious person and the man’s wife confirmed the story to be true. I avoid meddling too much in spiritual matters beyond me.

Fair enough.

  1. Kindly elaborate further on the subject of sainthood, my keen interest being in the vetting. How is their piety established ?
  2. Why can’t someone be a priest and still have a wife ?
  3. Kindly quote a scripture on intercession to verify your argument.

We are in agreement on the subject of spirituality being complex. Having been a victim of witchcraft myself, I wonder how people can still be oblivious of the existence of good and evil.

You are very correct brother. Another blasphemous doctrine they teach is regarding the Immaculate conception. When you take all these things into consideration, it’s clear that the Catholic church is an apostate church. It is antichrist. The bible clearly identifies her in Revelation 17 as the whore of Babylon, or Mystery Babylon. She is the mother of all harlot denominations, from which her cup of iniquity runneth. I’m sure you’re aware on how the Catholic church murdered million of Christians throughout the dark ages, fed them to lions, burnt them at stake. That’s papal Rome for you and she’s getting ready to persecute the bride of Christ again! ‘Get out of her my people’ sayeth the voice of the prophet. The satanic Vatican will be completely destroyed in one hour, by Russia. Amen.

Revelation 17:1. Then one of the seven angels who had the seven bowls came and said to me, ‘Come, I will show you the judgement of the great whore who is seated on many waters, 2with whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and with the wine of whose fornication the inhabitants of the earth have become drunk.’ 3So he carried me away in the spiritli into a wilderness, and I saw a woman sitting on a scarlet beast that was full of blasphemous names, and it had seven heads and ten horns. 4The woman was clothed in purple and scarlet, and adorned with gold and jewels and pearls, holding in her hand a golden cup full of abominations and the impurities of her fornication; 5and on her forehead was written a name, a mystery: ‘Babylon the great, mother of whores and of earth’s abominations.’ 6And I saw that the woman was drunk with the blood of the saints and the blood of the witnesses to Jesus.[/li]When I saw her, I was greatly amazed. 7But the angel said to me, ‘Why are you so amazed? I will tell you the mystery of the woman, and of the beast with seven heads and ten horns that carries her. 8The beast that you saw was, and is not, and is about to ascend from the bottomless pit and go to destruction. And the inhabitants of the earth, whose names have not been written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, will be amazed when they see the beast, because it was and is not and is to come.

Plain facts in bold. My people die because of lack of knowledge.

Before you go completely feral on the catholics and persecution of Christians, remember this; that Paul zealously persecuted Christians and supervised the killing of some of the more pious early Christians (eg Stephen). Men of God have made many grave mistakes before, and been redeemed. YYou may end up calling the church of God Satan bila kujua. Let the wheat and the weeds grow together.

  1. I believe a special group of priests and church leaders study the life of the departed person and follow a list of criteria to arrive at the decision to canonize or beatify someone. I dont know why they do it. These people know many things you and I may not know. And those who know some of these things rarely tell you anything. There are numerous instances where religious people hid things they knew from the masses: Moses, Christ, Paul, John (in revelations), and even admited to hiding them. We look very naive to people who understand some of the things. Wale wametembea through the dimensions can do things that leave you wondering what they are up to.
  2. Someone can be a catholic without being a priest. It is a requirement that they impose on themselves willingly. Those who are not interested should not bother.
  3. Personally I don’t pray through any saint. But I do not dare rebuke those who do. They know why they do it. If you ask a Catholic priest for scriptural reference, I am sure he will give you plenty.

All churches nowadays are in one form of corruption and blasphemy or the other. Most are just apostate institutions and none is better than the other. Just seek God on your own and avoid the corrupted churches.