@Stormtrooper98 , listen to this
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Mid-last year I was just shopping around in Eastleigh and I overheard the idle muslim clerics preaching on the streets, and the major debate was that Jesus never got circumcised, he only got named.
I went on my way considering how easily someone like @ibrahim300 would fall for such nonsense, as we’ve seen him make similar arguments here before.
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Mzito @messiahette thanks for this post. There are many holes in this argument that I will show with these simple questions:
Q1. Were the 11 disciples really killed for their faith? A: Nobody knows how the disciples died or even what they went on to do after Jesus ministry ended upon his death. I know John the Elder went on to write a gospel on the island Patmos but he died of natural causes, not persecution. Please give me the story of just ONE disciple who was killed for his faith ntatii.
Q2. Did early Christians die for their faith? A: Yes. We know Emperor Nero was starting fires all over Rome and he blamed the Christians for the fires and killed them. Whether they recanted or not, he killed them. So we cannot say they died for their faith because they would have been killed either way. We don’t even know if any of the unnamed “500 brethren” who we were told by Paul witnessed the risen Jesus were among this group killed.
I can hear you asking, what about Stephen!! Wasn’t he killed for his faith?? Yes Stephen was stoned to death for his faith but remember he was never on the list of those who saw the risen Jesus which Paul gave us in 1 Corinthians.
Still it is a big deal when someone dies for his faith, can we just accept early Christians like Stephen, possibly Paul and Justin Martyr all dying for their faith meaning they were correct about Jesus? I will give you a resounding NO because terrorists like ISIS, Alshabaab etc all believe they are correct when they do suicide bombings and kill themselves (and others) for their faith.
Paul became a Christian very early after Jesus and he admitted to “persecuting” the church. What does this mean? He killed them? Arrested them? Either way he never told us who exactly he persecuted and I doubt very much disciple Peter would have ever tolerated Paul if he knew he had killed any of his fellow disciple and friends, don’t you agree???
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Dont drag me to these religion threads. Jesus was a jew yet today no jew is a Christian. Peter and Paul argued about the real teachings of Jesus, Paul won and Peter failed. All the early jewish Christians were either killed or exiled and that was the end of the true jewish Christianity. What is left today is Christianity version from Rome, not the true teachings of the jewish messiah.
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That’s a very informative piece right there my brother. Something I didn’t know about. What are the true teachings of the Jewish Messiah?
I am not a jew, so not interested. You can use your phone to do some research on that
That’s Deep web kind of stuff. Wiki is owned at the moment, I can’t get info from there
Why are you listening to this Ibrahim guy? READ for yourself Galatians 2:10-15 and find out what the fight was btwn Peter and Paul. This Ibrahim guy mixes some truth with mostly lies na atakukanganya if you don’t fact-check the things he tells you. Personally I always check anything he claims.
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Very valid point
Hey bud, I’ll be right back at you. Good stuff!
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Wasn’t Peter crucified upside down in Rome? Historians write that he was killed around 66AD. This is well documented.
James, John and probably Thomas and Andrew were also matryred for not only proclaiming about Jesus, but that He had risen from the dead.
That’s very different from Islamic suicide bombers because their “faith” is not based on a belief witnessed on a first hand basis. The conviction these apostles had about Jesus set a precedent for faith based persecution. Of course Islam, Satan’s copy cat religion borrowed this aspect of Christianity and polluted it for nefarious ends.
Read wide, kiasi tu, it is documented how the disciples died, some exiled, some murdered, the Bible has all that info.
1.) “Wasn’t Peter crucified upside down in Rome? Historians write that he was killed around 66AD. This is well documented.”- This crucifixion story comes from Acts of Peter, a late 2nd Century book that was wholeheartedly rejected by the church seeing that it never made it into the canon. More over, according to that book, Peter was crucified for preaching to King Agrippa’s concubines to practice abstinence and chastity, which angered the king. Is this martyrdom really? When you say historians, who are they? Can you name 1 historian from 1st century who mentioned Peter’s supposed crucifixion and death?
2.) “James, John and probably Thomas and Andrew were also martyred for not only proclaiming about Jesus, but that He had risen from the dead.” Again, these stories come from Acts of Thomas and Acts of Andrew, more 2nd and 3rd century NONCANONICAL books thrown out by the church, case closed.
Let’s consider James. His story comes from Josephus (a 1st century historian) very good evidence I admit. The problem is we are unsure whether this James who was murdered by a high priest under the pretext of breaking the law, was actually the brother of Jesus Christ or it was James the brother of Jesus son of Damneus.
The martyrdom of John? That one I’ve never heard of it and even more importantly it is not in the bible. As far as I know John died at an island in Patmos after writing Revelations (which Christians mumekubaliana was written 90s CE so John was obviously a 80 to 90 something guka by now) so unless you can give me a bible verse then it’s case closed for that too.
Conclusion there is no reliable and sufficient evidence 4 leave alone 11 disciples were ever martyred for their faith.
“The Bible has all that info.”-- yeah except it doesn’t! If those verses exist, state them here so that we check and confirm which disciple was killed for his faith.
this should answer all your questions…
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