Why the KDF is still using the F-5

F-14 tomcat ziliretire kitambo na zote zikafanywa scrap. Iran pekee ndio inazo na ni mzee!!!

Drone ni ya intelligence collection na kudeal na terrorists. Kuna missions haziwezi fanya as yet

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wako almost there coz most drone zinafly longer tumia hydrogen kumaanisha zinaeza ka huko juu for 24 hour missions bila refuel na za ground zinakuja kama hii hapa. scientist wanapredict future wars zitajaa drones in all shapes and sizes



Exactly and they are now placing PV cells (photovoltaic cells) on them to utilize UV light so they become solar powered. yaani inakaa huko juu inashuka tu kuongezea hellfire missiles.

Global hawk na reaper mostly do 24hr plus flights on jet fuel, kabla waconvince military kutumia hydrogen itatake time. Kama hadi waleo hawajawai tumia bio fuel kufly combat mission, ni kufanya matest moja moja tu.

Hizo vitu ni process kabla zikubaliwe kutumika. Kama hii despite stellar performance huko afghanistan bado iko testing


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They should introduce drones for battering wives. Weta anaeza saidika

@Jazzman u sound like an airman in KAF? AM I RYT?

Eh, no. I’m just a humble birrionaire and chief defender of the KDF on ktalk (lakini mahali pesa ya umma imeporwa hautanipata)

Very wrong bana. You are speaking from the 20th century point of view. You need super fighters for deterrence too. Countries mob are very peaceful but are mantaining and constantly upgrading their fleet. Hizi F5 zipewe watu wa navy and the airforce to acquire atleast 4th generation fighters with improved avionics. There was talk of f15s from the saudis but hadi wa leo hakuna kitu imetendeka. If Migingo issue comes to blows, their 6 combat ready su30mks will simply climb to their max altitude and fire at our F5s ambazo haziezi pita 4000 wakiskiza ngoma za chameolone (less work juu ya fly by wire) . No sweat. The kill ratio will be crazy. F5 sio ndege ya vita sasa.

Kuja ni kupeleke spiral drives on an old piper:D:D:D cessna ni ya masoftie. hio itakuwa inspiration mara mia:D

You who is speaking from a 21st century point of view should take a good look at Brazil. Surrounded by countries which are better armed than our neighbours and uses the F-5 as the main air superiority fighter and even upgraded it to have BVR capability. The Argentinians to the south have upgraded A-4’s (very old design with upgraded avionics) and Venezuela has Su-30mk2 and F-16’s, they definitely can afford better planes; why are they still using the F-5 up to now? And how did you not see that?
Even Switzerland still has her F-5’s which the government wanted to replace with gripens but lost the referendum

You who is speaking from a 21st century view forget that air defence battalions do exist. Those six planes will be shot down even at their maximum ceiling (yes, we do have the capability) and you also have to do some little logic. Kenya has been flying the F-5 (which have upgraded avionics btw) and cross training with the best that Nato has to offer since the 60’s and Uganda ordered her six planes in 2006; who do you think has better drivers? If the impossible were to happen, its the Kenyan pilots and air defence battery operators who’d be dancing lipala to Sauti Sol’s Sura Yako

You who is speaking from the 21st century point of view should have seen that arms are not the only deterrent that are available to Kenya in the case of Uganda. Why do you think the U-boats were feared and hated during world war 2 much more than the Stuka bombers?

Strangle trade/movement of goods you strangle a nation

You who is speaking from a 21st century poit of view should have known that the cost I put up there are for planes that are already in service. There’s something called lifetime service costs of a fighter which is considered before a plane is bought and includes stuff like pilot training, spares, maintenance costs, fuel costs, comparison of time when jet is available for service vs time when jet is in maintenace e.t.c. There’s no way Israel would sell to Kenya it’s F-15I which were custom made for her, they’d sell us the earlier versions which are more expensive to maintain and overhaul, furthermore, the cost of upgrading and rebuilding will be much greater than that of an F-5. Also for an american weapon system to be transferred to a third party will require approval from us congress which will be a tough sell since they know the Chinese are very much around in Kenya and have a knack for reverse engineering foreign products.

You who speak from a 21st century view has failed to look at the ambitions of Kenya to determine whether the Navy needs jets. Yes Kenya is working towards becoming a regional heavyweight with the capability to patrol waters from the gulf of aden to the northern most tip of Madagascar, shake hands with Zuma’s navy and back to mtongwe but what would they need jets for? Who are they projecting power to? Somali pirates? Isn’t an MD-500 enough to deal with a pirate skiff? Even Britain at the moment has no naval jets and it’s flagship is a helicopter carrier. China has one aircraft carrier same to spain italy, france and Brazil. A good example would be Canada, neighbour to two countries that are armed to the teeth; one friendly one not, and still has the earliest of F-18’s and no naval jets.

The only countries that are active in modernisation are those that face either an immediate, constant or future threat e.g SE Asia due to Chinese aggresion, Saudis and the other rich middle east/North Africa countries due to Iran and Israel, Europe because of Russia.

South Africa bought gripens and put them in store, Angola is rebuilding after civil war, Nigeria may well be asleep

Bonus question.

Why would the US navy choose to keep the F-5 in DACT to train USN and USMC fighter pilots?


Haya tuanze na paragraph one. Yes, brazil has been using F5s but they also have the AMX, a29 and if you havent noticed, they have placed orders for the gripen. Kenya relies only on the F5s and no plan to upgrade, very 20th centruy. Brazil is peaceful but they see the need to upgrade, that’s very 21st century view. Sio lazima uwe na adui kwanza. Argentina haitegemei hio pekee, they have some other aircraft that is old but didnt disappoint during falklands war (am not knowledgeable na countries mob South America).

Paragraph 2, Kenya has no air defense that is capable of shooting down an su30. Unless the pilot is very dumb. Look at our air defense inventory and compare them to an su30 defenses. Kenya relies on manpads which have altitude limitations. In Syria, the rebels have been trying to shoot down Russian mi24s but the decoys on the copters are really good sembuse su30? Btw they have been using latest US supplied manpads, zetu kenya ni za kitambo. Trust the russian with defenses. The other anti aircraft guns tuko nazo ni za WW2. In defense hatutaona kitu. Take note, the UG people can attack at night or during foggy weather. The su30 is an all weather aircraft. Our defenses need visual to fire. Hapo ni DFHKM. Our F5 bila BVR wala fly by wire hakuna chenye zitafanya. Itakuwa ni kama museveni ako na feya shooting hapless birds out of the sky akichunga his Ankole cattle.

Kusema kenya pilots wako juu ni uwongo. Where I schooled, kulikuwa na many flight schools. It is a small town so tulikuwa tunajuana wakenya wengi. Some of them walikuwa wameletwa na airforce kuzidisha training. Si kwa ubaya but hawakuwa juu. A competent air force pilot has to clock in atleast 300hrs per year. Hawa wasee hawakuwa na hiyo. Pia they were new to some defensive maneuvres( chandelles) which is a standard maneuvre in an FAA any flying curriculum. Sijui kama hivyo ndio the rest wako, but I think kenyan airforce pilots have a long way to go.
In terms of air superiority UG wako juu but when you include evrything, tuko juu. So sikatai in a war tutawashinda. Albeit with heavy losses due to the kill ratio ya su30 to an F5.

Am personally very against Kenya acquring american jets. Too much hustle and kuna strings attached. Hata maintenance utarudisha huko. In short, stress mob sana. Am all for Russian jets. Uganda paid $746 million. That was for the jets, after sales servicing, new radar systems, a couple of t90 battle tanks, a couple of missiles, missiles servicing, training. Su30s would cost far much less in the long run than hizo f15s wanadaisha. Tukijikaza na USA hakuna penye tutaenda. Especially with all the bureaucracy surrounding such sales. Stress tupu.

I didnt state the navy badly needs the jets. But were we to acquire 4th generatioon jets, it would be good to sambaza some to the navy. Which will significantly strengthen it. The Kenyan navy is horribly under armed. If and ever, somalia is going back to the strong nation it was, the maritime border dispute italeta shida and we will need some jets. They will have their arabian allies behind them. Halafu you are doing too much comparison. UK doesnt really need navy jets, they have the US to fight for them. Many US army camps ziko huko. It has been an issue in NATO. European countries slacking in defense expenditure juu they have US at their side. Hata hivyo, you are ver wrong. The UK navy has the FAA( Fleet Air Arm) which operates the navy jets. Isitoshe, part of the f35s they are acquiring zitaenda kwa Royal navy. The UK has also has submarines and crazy warships to make up for the low no. of jets in the navy.

Ha! Look at that, 6th generation jets for the navy while sisi tunakata eucalyptus and chonga it ndio navy yetu iende kufight somali pirates nayo :D:D:D(JK)

Sijakataa kwamba zinatumika bado hadi huko US. Shida ni huko zinatumika kufundsiha watu, huku zinatumika kama frontline fighters. Hatuna kitu ingine. Poor maintenance and I havent heard of any airframe upgrades. Iran wako nazo pia but now that sanctions zimetolewa, wamekimbilia su30s.

My points are, you dont need to be at war to upgrade your military. Anything can happen anytime. Better be prepared. Hebu angalia Algerian Airforce. Hao wakitaka wataturarua ile mbaya mbovu. Hata Ethipia wako na su27, very capable hadi su34 na su35 maniframes have been copied from it. Hawaendi war but kuwa ready ni muhimu sana.

The other point ni, F5 is a very good plane. I love it actually. I have clocked 40mins ndani yake. It is better to have it as a trainer or recon aircraft. Not a frontline fighter.Imepitwa na wakati. Hizo countries umetaja ziko na jets zingine pia. Sio kama sisi, tunategemea f5 pekee.
In ug vs Kenya kwa battle of the skies, tutaundwa proper. 4th generation vs 3rd generation. They outclass us at everything. Hata dog fight pia due to their thrust vectoring engines. It will come at a cost but kutumia mitambo ya kitambo juu ya amani si wise. Kuwa rada :smiley:

By the way, Brazil ni wajanja unlike us. Very old planes but ni ujanja wako nayo. Sisi hatuna any. Check out this article.

You really need to do extra reading on matters military, it’s strategies and planes in general.

You claim to be a pilot yet you do not know the A-29 is a turboprop designed for counter insurgency operations and GROUND ATTACK missions, what can it do against an F-16? :D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D


The AMX is also a GROUND ATTACK aircraft designed for close air support and battlefield interdiction. Read up on those two


Dude, you think KDF is like those militaries of wherever you are they’ll anounce and put every detail of their operations on the net? Do you know the runways at LAB and Wajir were recently upgraded? This info is available on the net but you have to go looking for it not wait for it to come to you.

Those older aircraft were given a hiding by the much slower Harrier (it’s literally subsonic) and were withdrawn to protect Buenos Aires in case Margaret Thatcher decided to do away with the military junta? Why do you think that happened? Better planes for the Argentinians or better pilots for the Brits?

You are either dumb or are quite uninformed to think that a seriously professional military will depend on MANPADS to defend against high flying aircraft and compare it to some rebels. Like I told you in your misinformed thread, Kenya uses the rapier system, the same one the Brits are relying on to protect them against Russians. Please read up on the specifications, you really need to seeing as you are putting a turboprop at the same level as an upgraded fighter. Just because you have a few minutes in the early version of the F-5 doesn’t mean all are still the same. There are things called upgrades, even the F-15’s you are singing about were once A models before being upgraded to C and D models. The F-16 goes by block 30 and such likes. Read up on this.



Because you met the NV’s of the KAF you feel Kenyan pilots are inadequate?! :D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D
Niokotwe kwa dojo ya @wong

Dude, hata 5th generation jets bado hazijaingia service vizuri ushafika 6th generation? Hiyo wanatumia light sabre?

Fleet Air Arm retired their Harriers years ago wakashikanisha na za RAF wakauzia USMC. Na ati wewe ndio pilot?!:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

The F-35 won’t reach carrier capable numbers until the end of the decade!!! The Fleet Air Arm at the moment is purely helicopters, and share the BAE hawk with the RAF, read!!!


Dude, six jets, 6 against 25?! Plus air defence?! Thats basically 4 v 1, even thats a challenge for the F-15E against a target that has a small turn radius!! I already told you to read. Kindly take note, the F-5EM is an all weather, day and night 4th GENERATION FIGHTER!!! Hii kama wikipedia inajua, wewe mwenye unajiita pilot haujui? The Su-30MK2 DOES NOT HAVE THRUST VECTORING!!!


Drop in overall military spending does not mean slow down of modernisation. The Italians recently put into service Tranche 3 of the Eurofighter programme where Germany and UK are partners

Having the latest tank does not make one invincible, even the mighty merkava was turned to rubble by hezbollah

Like I said, read!!! It’s called Dissimilar Air Combat Training where experienced grade A1 pilots handle the F-5 to give the NV’s some hard lessons that their F/A-18’s are inadequate against experience!!!


You missed the point of my reply. Hata sijui una argue nini. Seriously, sielewi. Nikikuuliza, hii essay yote ni ya nini utasema? Nowhere have i argued the superiority of brazilian fighters. I just stated what aircrafts they have and that they dont rely on one as we do. Sikuongelea how bad they are. But wewe umeingilia mambo ya systems. Ndio nakuuliza sielewi una argue nini. Kama ni systems ya ndege, i can bite too. Right from the basics. Nowhere in my reply nilisema those crafts are interceptors. So arguement ya roles sijui inatokea wapi. Nor did I indicate they are better than F16s, hiyo arguement sijui imetokea wapi. Seriously, ulikuwa unasoma nini???

The only time nimetaja f15 is when i talked about the replacement. I havent sang about it. Sijui story ya f15 variants imetokea wapi. But i guess you needed to latch on to something uonekane unajua sana. Naelewa watu kama nyinyi. Again, sielewi hapo una argue nini.

Am now convinced you are a copy and paste guy. The rapier system kenya uses is not the same as the one UK uses. No country ever sells their primary weapon (except staunch allies), they will produce an export variant that is nerfed. That’s for security reasons if u didnt know. An example, the s300 that russia exports is different from the one they use at home. The rapier has export variants(the name was jane or sth).
Still, the rapier is outdated compared to an su30. If you had really done what you told me to(read on the systems), ungejua a rapier radar has a max range of 15km. An su30 has bvr of about 60km, that means the AD site will be obliterated before detecting an su30. That’s why I said hakuna AD ya kenya that can take out an su30. Nilikuwa naongea based on facts, not emotions.

Argentina is leasing a couple of su24 from Russia(not as capable as su30), the British have been quick realize their rapier wont measure up huko falkland . They are replacing them with FLAAD . Infact, the British use HMS clyde to detect any incoming argentinian aircraft not the less capable rapier system. The British generals are wise enough to realise this (despite having the newer 2000 rapier series which have the DAGGER Radar as well as the Blindfire and Optical trackers which Kenya can only fantasize of owning-we have export variant) , your opinion doesnt matter here. You cant argue this please. There’s no way unaeza sema 5bob ni pesa mob kushinda 10bob. An AD is useless if the enemy aircraft detects first. (I havent even touched on jamming system and capabilities of an su30, no need mpaka uelewe basics kwanza). I mentioned manpad because Kenya uses them too. Halafu the British dont rely on rapier only. Read on IAD (Intergrated Air Defense). It basically is a network of air defense systems, rapier is part of it. And they cant do jack if Russia decides to attack. That’s why the US is hell bent on putting up missile shields in Europe.

About upgrades, there’s so much you can do. They have limits you know. That’s why I asked if they are having any airframe upgrades. Hata ukiweka hizo upgrades umesema kwa F5 (you havent even specified which upgrades), they arent enough to measure up. If you know of any, tell me which one yenye utaweka tuone kama itafikia su30.

Again, wewe ni mtu wa copy and paste. Su30MKs have thrust vectoring. That’s final. It’s a fact. There are many defense websites out there. I wont dwell on this juu it needs very experienced fighter pilots. Only few can fully utilise it. I doubt those UG pilots wataezana kweli.

About Kenyan pilots, those guys were already flying, so hawakuwa NVs. Walituambia vitu mob btw(which is not cool juu ingekuwa rahisi adui kupata weakness yetu) Nimegusia juu tu. Long story short, due to the peaceful times tumekuwa nayo, hao watu wamerelax sana. There’s a minimum number of hours per year an airforce pilot needs. Kenya falls short. Most are in for the money (hao wasee wanakula pesa :eek:) after raking up hours, kadhaa hutoka na kuenda kutafuta kazi kwa big international airlines.

Am not saying Kenya tuko down sana. We have work to do. Hata hizo runways ziko upgraded hakuna kitu cha kushtua juu am guessing it’s ILS systems and approach lights ndio wameweka. Those guys back at school hawakuwa wanatambua precision landing systems.
Sio kenyan pilots wote wako hivyo of course, am sure kuna wazito huko hivyo. But hata ukipatia newbie driver maclaren P1 (su30) na wewe veteran upewe toyota premio (f5), bado utaona vumbi. The experience gap wont be enough to make up for the tech. difference.

Am not a fan of wikipedia but nimetafuta mahali wamesema an upgraded f5 became a 4th generation aircraft sijaona. It’s impossible mate. You cant upgrade a fighter and make it next gen. Maybe useme 3++ but 4th hapo umepiga miss by light years. For real, hauelewi mambo ya defence kapsaaa. Do you even understand what makes an aircraft next gen???
Nimeona hio nikajua tu unafanya mchezo ya kucopy paste. Copy the paragraph imesema hivyo nijionee. Waah! I never thought wikipedia could sink that low.

Kenya uses the 5E tiger ii variant. Hatuna EM variant. An su30 can down several f5s mate. I talked of kill ratio. The information sharing(btw hii hukuwa massive force multiplier ndio maana f22 na f35 zinaogopwa sana-read on it) between the 6 su30s and their not so impressive stealth will overwhelm our fighters. If the kenyan ones still have the default radar, hakuna hopes kabisa. 3rd gen vs 4th gen hakuna kupingana. Same way that su30 itaona dust when you measure it up against a 5th gen f22. Did I mention the su30s phased array radar gives them the ability to serve as a mini AWACS- anyway najua haujaelewa:D. Once you really understand the capabilities of an su30 against an F5 hautataka kupingana. Lemme give u another scenario, an su30 can detect and target an f35 at bvr! Tafakari hilo kwanza.

Pardon that 6th gen, I meant 5th gen. I have been discussing with friends for long about the self healing capability of the 6th gen fighters concept by boeing. Oh btw, 6th gen fighters, dubbed Next Generation TACAIR are around the corner:D:D usishtuke. And no hazitakuwa na light sabres. As you like to say, Read!!:smiley:

I didnt mention anything about f35s on a carrier, I just said the british will be having some for the navy and that’s a fact. Look it up. It’s final.

Am saying it again, FAA is part of the royal navy. It’s even on their website dude. You tell me to read but wewe ndio hutaki kusoma, kazi yako ni kucopy paste tu. Atleast read and understand what you are copying.
Am out:D:D umeanza name calling nikasare. Sipendi such arguements. Anyway, there’s much more to the su30 yenye hata sijaguzia.

Seriously ulikuwa ukisoma nini?! Haukusoma where I mentioned the Venezuelans have F-16’s? Haukusoma where I mentioned the F-5 are used as the main fighters for Brazil Air force? Did that mean that I said that is the only plane they have?! And do you mean to tell us F-5 is the only plane you know that KAF has?! What of the BAE hawk? Shorts Tucano? Scottish Aviation Bulldog? Like I told you read!! Now I’m adding TO UNDERSTAND!!!


Relying on one platform to perform multiple tasks is not an indication of a poor air force but rather a thumbs up to the versatility of the platform in use. This means cost of maintaining different types of planes is drastically reduced. I know you can’t deduce that. Why do you think USAF, USN USMC were all using F-4’s the Vietnam war? Why is USAF replacing several different aircraft with one type, the F-35? Why are the USN USMC also procuring the same? Why don’t they pick different planes as they are now?

Like I told you read!!! If wikipedia of all sites can have this info, why not you. Here is an excerpt

“Since 1978, the F-5 has been the KAF’s main air defense fighter. A total of 29 were delivered; 12 F-5E & 2 F-5F from USA, and 10 F-5E,3 F-5EM & 2 F-5F formerly in service with the Royal Jordanian Air Force (RJAF). [SIZE=6]The ex RJAF aircraft were upgraded to F-5EM standard before being delivered to the Kenya Air Force[/SIZE]. There was controversy over the purchase of the F-5s from Jordan, which were shipped to Kenya and assembled locally.[2]Currently a F-5 upgrade and procurement program is underway.” I already gave you homework on the F-5EM

Hata wakipewa mclaren F1 na sisi tuweke technology ya koeniggsegg kwa premio na tuweke the Stig kama dereva… Sitamalizia

Now, since you know a lot on BVR, show me one missile that is AIR TO GROUND, and can be fired BEYOND VISUAL RANGE and then HIT A TARGET ON THE GROUND.
Then if the Su-30MK2 had TVC (which it doesn’t and you failed to prove otherwise) explain why it would be too complex for Ugandan pilots yet the technology has been (supposedly by you) supplied to them

You clearly do not know jack about air defence and how it works. A serious military like Britains cannot depend on an OFFSHORE PATROL VESSEL (HMS Clyde :D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D, whatever “knowledge” you claim to have, stop right there before you embarass yourself further!!!) roughly the size of our very own KNS JASIRI to be the primary aircraft detection and identification system for an island they are protecting. They use the Giraffe system from SAAB which have a range exceeding 300km


The rapier detection range is 15km yes. When it is working as a stand alone unit!!! Like I said, you don’t know jack about air defense. That rapier is the missile unit, what of the countrywide radar coverage?
http://illiweb.com/fa/empty.gifFor any Su30 or aircraft that is, to take out an enemy surface to air missile system it has to have a Wild weasel status ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wild_Weasel ) or rather Anti-radiation capabilities. It not just any plane per say, its a plane enabled to perform that duty. In Africa few Air forces, can conduct those sortie of Suppression of Enemy Air Defence http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suppression_of_Enemy_Air_Defence and UPDF Su30 are not one of them.
The very strong aspect of the Su30 , the 400Km+ radar is the Achilles heel for the Su30. For the Su30 to go BvR it has to turn on its all weather BvR radar that can scan a range of 400km. the radar operator on the other hand can tune into BvR radar frequencies and use it as a guiding frequency towards the Aircraft with out turning on its guiding Radar System. It can lock on a Home On Jam (HOJ) status. So what the Ground missile operator does is to set his antennas at the expected frequency of the Su30 radars. Upon receiving the radar signal he launches his missiles towards the radiating frequency of the BvR Radar without turning on his own radar and alerting the enemy aircraft that its being tracked. The BvR pilot will never notice that there are missiles heading towards him as there is no Ground unit that is guiding the missiles. He will only see trail smokes of the approaching missiles a few Km in front of his cockpit and that is.

Switch off the BvR (beyond visual range) radar will mean that a within visual ranges (WvR) combat scenario will tack place. at a ratio of 1 (Su30):2 (F-5EM) handled with 1500 plus flying hours, the Su30 doesn’t stand the chance of going back to base.

You clearly don’t know why the US is insisting on a missile shield in Europe
This is to deal with the ballistic missile threat from Russia by using Patriot missile batteries and AEGIS missile systems enabled destroyers, not a Su-30 and the rapier is NOT a part of that system.

Again, 5 bob ya Kenya ni mingi kuliko 10 bob ya Uganda

Su30 and stealth in one sentence. Facepalm

Since you clearly have no idea what stealth is in military terms, let me explain it to you. There is something called a Radar Cross Section that enables radar to determine the size and distance of an aircraft be it a C-5, F-5 or a missile. Each and every aircraft has this, even the F-22. In order for a plane to be declared stealthy, it has to be designed in such a way that it returns as few as possible radar pings in order to fool the radar or feed it wrong info about the size distance and speed. If an F-35 pilot were to put the plane in a position where it gives the Su-30 a false reading of it’s size, do you think the flanker pilot will determine this is an F-35? Detect at BVR range, niokotwe kwa drum ya pamba

Put up evidence showing the SU-30MK2 which is what the Ugandans have thrust vectoring. It’s not final until you put evidence of that MK2

On the upgraded F-5 I meant to write has all the 4th gen capabilities

No country ever sells… Really?! Explain why India has better Su-30’s than the Russian Air Force yet it’s not an Indian product?! Explain why the latest Saudi F-15SA are better equipped than american E’s and Israeli I’s yet it’s not a Saudi product? Money and requirements talk, not your hearsay

You see, you are guessing. Why would the USN SeaBees have to be the ones to instruct Kenyan engineers to do it? What could it be pointing to? You’ve got to get it out of your head that KDF is poor. This things I’m copy pasting are called links. They are references for the info I’m putting here, not relying ln hearsay like you.
Btw, people like me, yes, we the ones who don’t take your word to be the truth of the matter, we who oppose you, we who use facts and references to debunk people like you who compare a standing army to some rebels carrying AK’s and think that an OPV is the main air defence radar of a British Overseas Territory, that one just killed it


Afadhali mimi wa copy paste kuliko wewe wa hearsay

Put up that info on the Su-30 so that I can debunk it and the little knowledge you have on matters military

You clearly did not read and UNDERSTAND!!! I clearly wrote The Fleet Air Arm AND the RAF!!! Does it mean I said the fleet air arm is not a part of the RN?! READ AND UNDERSTAND!!! Sio kuleta hearsay hapa na haujui difference ya OPV na Air Defense Systems

And why would a navy buy jets then use them from land?! And what would the Queen Elizabeth class aircraft carriers they are building be used for?! Sun tan beds for the royal family?!

From world war one, navy planes had the ability to be launched from ships as a means of force projection to far away battlefields where planes launched from their lands could not reach. Why do you think USN and USMC planes are always the first to get to far off conflicts?!

You’re afraid to be called out on what you’re posting and I repeat, unajiita pilot and you don’t know basic things like radar cross section yet you have the guts to compare KDF to some syrian rebels?! Take the corrections and criticism like a man!!








Next time, get your facts right sio hearsay kama hiyo ya HMS Clyde

I wont bother juu huelewi what an su30 is. You are explaining basic workings of ADs.

Your homing explanation is basic knowledge on how missiles can track a jet due its radar sugnature. All SAMs do that. If you think a rapier can track an su30 using that method, then it would be useless to own fighter jets. There are pods that counter this. A whole different topic sitaki kuingilia.

You are a copy paste guy. No SAM system will ever leave its radar on and scan the skies continuously, that will be a give away, the su30 will find the source and bomb it. Besides, a spy aircraft can easily pick up on the frequency and jam you terribly during war. If you had bothered to read more you would have known this. Rapier cant detect anything beyond it’s range. Your explanation fits another system, not a rapier mate. If it were that simple, do you think militaries would invest billions on bvrs’ R&D?

By the way, i made an error kwa hio comment fulani hapo juu. You rushed to counter it. Ungekuwa unaelewa mambo ya ndege na radars ungenicorrect. Hadi saa hii hujaona hio error, it reinforces the fact that you are a copy and paste guy. If you cant find the error, wachana na hii maneno, they are beyond you.

I repeat you are a copy paste guy. Ati tune in to the expected su30 frequency??! Jamaa hujui chenye unasema. Hii ndio na shida na kucopy paste. Thing is, HAKUNA mtu anajua. The radar on the su30 changes its frequency lots of times in a second to countet jamming. Read more about radars, mainly phased arrays. Anyway, radar frequency is usually very top secret. So ukisema ‘expected’, it means you dont understand chenye unasema. Si kwa ubaya but any average military enthusiast akiona umesema hivyo atakudsimiss.

The HMS clyde has been deployed to the falklands for early detection mate. It’s a fact. Ukikataa it wont change anything. It has been deployed there till 2018. Many ships are used for this. The Russians use the Moskva for this off Syrian coast, the
[SIZE=5]USNS Howard has the ship based aegis etc The hms clyde has a surface and air surveillance radar. Sielewi mbona unaidharau.[/SIZE]

You are repeating what I said. Rapier isnt used as a stand alone by UK, I very well mentioned Integrated Air Defense systems. What you have done is repeat what I have said and then claim i dont know anything about Air defense. When you have clearly repeated what I have just said.

All modern fighter jets have missile approach warning systems. In layman terms, kuna sensors zitaambia pilot kuna missile inkuja. It doesnt matter whether the missile is being guided by ground or it is fire and forget. Ukisema ati the jet wont know what hit it, you are speaking from 60s 70s point of view. That’s how you could take out an aircraft back then. Nowadays it aint that easy. You need a more capable SAMs.

I clearly stated NOT SO IMPRESSIVE STEALTH. sikusema su30 is a stealthy plane. It has a crossection of 20 square metres. That’s not impressive but it’s something. But no, wewe uliona ni chance ya kuonyeshana unajua what stealth is. Karibu kila mtu anajua hio. You have rushed to say i dont know what radar cross section is juu hukusoma sentensi vizuri. That’s not how you argue.

I would have discussed radars but enda jifunze kwanza what an su30 radar can do. Pia jifunze on the importance of data links between aircrafts. That stuff alone is a massive game changer. Even when it comes to WVR, f5 hakuna kitu itafanya. The su30 pilots wont sweat it. They will simply climb to an altitude yenye f5 haiwezi fika and fire. Hakuna kitu f5 itafanya. Nitaendelea na hii diacussion ukielewa huwezi compare airplanes from two different generations.

In a certain military exercise between the US and Indians, the su30 had a kill ration of 9:1 against f15s. That is for one su30 taken out. 9 f15s were no more. F15 is far more advanced than an f5. So hakuna venye unaeza sema f5 na su30 1v1, f5 itashinda. Huo ni wazimu unasema. Nashuku huelewi chenye unaongelea. F5 is a very good aircraft but imepitwa na wakati.

Fact, no country ever sells its top game changer weapons. Umeona country yoyote ikiuziwa F22?? Even UK walikatazwa. F35 watanunua but not the raptor. Hata si raptor pekee, even f117, blackbird(sr71). Hakuna countries imewai gusa hizo. Except for the one that was shot down. India cant buy su35. Wamepewa license ya kureproduce su30s. So they are free to make changes. How much changes, haijulikani juu it’s guarded.

Rapier tuko nayo ni export variant. They cant sell the exact one they have juu it can end up in an enemy’s hand. It is a standard practice in the defense industry. It’s a fact. Hata huelewi mambo ya defense kumbe.

I didnt say having one type of jet ni vibaya. Nilisema kuwa na jet moja ya kitambo ndio vibaya. Owning lots of f35 si shida at all, it’s a multirole anyway. India have lots of su30s, hio si shida pia. Turkey, Saudi etc. It is not bad to have one type of fighter jet that is modern in large numbers but it is very dangerous to have one type of jet that is very old. That’s was my point. Hizo zingine umesema ni zako tu.

Hio part ya carriers hata sielewi unataka kuelezea nini. Kuna mahali ulisema ati FAA borrows jets from the navy. You cant borrow from what you are part of. It is the FAA that deals with them, so they cant borrow what they manage.

Reminder, read on missile approach warning systems. Jamming isnt the only way an airplane can escape a missile. There are are many evasive maneuvres that ‘bleed’ out the missiles. Did i mention decoys too??

It is wrong to say we dont have the equipment because I cant prove we dont have. That’s wrong and bad reasoning. Those rebels are very well armed. The CIA spent $800m training and buying weapons for ‘moderate’ rebels who later handed these to the terrorists. Very modern stingers and crazy tows. Elewa chenye hao rebels wanatumia before dismissing them.

Hii story tuachie hapa for now. Kuna vitu umesema nikajua unasoma mahali kisha unapaste hapa. :YAWN: Am out.

I know what a Su-30 is and what it can do and I also know of the capabilities of KDF to overcome this threat but the question is, why are you not defending your point with clear evidence that the Su-30 will have it easy in Kenya but instead resorting to “only I know you don’t” tactics? juu umeshindwa kucounter how it would beat an F-5EM? Ama because you have failed to provide sufficient proof that it cannot walk all over the F-5EM of the KAF?

Which you clearly do not understand and are hiding behind vague text to avoid having to explain yourself and provide proof. I’m still waiting for proof on your claims.

You clearly have no idea why an air force will need jets and you clearly, and those countermeasures can also be overcome

Yes, I provide evidence to my claims and the copy pasting is how I do it to corroborate them. [SIZE=5]Where are yours?[/SIZE]

What I gave was a scenario (google it, it seems you do not understand it) and not the exact thing the radar operator would do. Like I mentioned in the comment above (which you haven’t read yet you claim to know) not all aircraft are equipped for Wild Weasel missions especially in Africa. Give me an example of a spy aircraft in Sub Saharan Africa. Rapier cannot detect anything beyond it’s range but that doesn’t translate into the national radar network will not hence the reason anti aircraft missiles are mostly mobile!!! Geez dude, READ AND UNDERSTAND, not spew nonsense!!! Like I asked you in the previous comment, provide EVIDENCE of an AIR to SURFACE missile that has BEYOND VISUAL RANGE capabilities. If you were smart than the rest of us as you claim to be, you should have an answer. The rapier is a part of the air defense system of a country of which radar detection is handled by another system and targets given to the battery operators!!! Military organisations invest in BVR to be able to deal with AERIAL THREATS!!!

Whatever error you made I don’t need to see it. It probably got lost among the glaring inaccuracies to wild claims and rumours you made without providing evidence

[ATTACH=full]33841[/ATTACH] [ATTACH=full]33845[/ATTACH] [ATTACH=full]33842[/ATTACH] [ATTACH=full]33844[/ATTACH]

Wow, yet you are the know it all


This is from the makers of the radar onboard the Clyde (this is how evidence looks like)
The SCANTER naval radar systems comply with the justification and operational requirements on board naval vessels to:
Provide backup to primary surveillance radar system
Assist on-board tactical task functions
Helicopter landing control
Perform sea and short-range air surveillance with automatic target tracking
Provide versatile interface capability for C-Flex and other on-board systems
Provide safe navigation for year-round operation.

So why use a short range radar for early detection and leave the Giraffe which has a range of 470 kms? And why would UK MOD procure more Giraffe systems?

Take a look at this… on second thought, you don’t read

[li]Unlike an active radar homing missile, the missile does not alert the target to the fact that it is homing in on it by illuminating it with radio waves. Typically, the target will be aware that it is being illuminated by the SAM radar, but it will not know for certain if it has been engaged.[/li][/ul]


So the way to argue is to take your word as it is despite the glaring disparities to reality and not dispute it since you know and we don’t, right?!

I am well aware what data links can do but unfortunately, you do not read for if you did, you’d know the F-5EM also has data links

And then the assumption you make thinking that the tigers will go into a dogfight without adequate countermeasures

Do you know the Harrier, which is subsonic, can hold its own against an F-16 WVR? Why did I even ask, hearsay ndio zako

As I wrote in your misguided thread, the Indians were sent F-15C’s that didn’t even have good radars in full knowledge they will be hammered and therefore trick Congress into allocating more funds to the F-22 program and was deliberately handicapped to the Indians advantage. As usual, you do not read but depend on hearsay. To have swallowed that play hook, line and sinker; call those military pundits to have a long hearty sympathetic laugh at you. Nowhere have I said it can win 1v1, read!!! I wrote 2v1 and 4v1 of which we have the numerical advantage

As I wrote in your misguided thread, the Indians were sent F-15C’s that didn’t even have good radars in full knowledge they will be hammered and therefore trick Congress into allocating more funds to the F-22 program and was deliberately handicapped to the Indians advantage. As usual, you do not read but depend on hearsay. To have swallowed that play hook, line and sinker; call those military pundits to have a long hearty sympathetic laugh at you. Nowhere have I said it can win 1v1, read!!! I wrote 2v1 and 4v1 of which we have the numerical advantage


So you want to tell us that Russia denied India the chance to buy the Su-35 and THEN invited India to be a partner in the development of the PAK FA, Russia’s 5th gen jet?! Who uses such logic?


All I’m seeing is a lot of talk and no evidence

You clearly do nut understand the concept of upgrading jets. What do you think will happen to the jets at Davis Monthan if they were to be revived for service or sold to another country? You clearly are dismissing the other planes that KAF has. Maybe it came as a surprise to you that they exist in Kenya

The part where I said the Fleet Air Arm shares it’s BAE Hawks with the RAF in order to train pilots? eih, you can’t understand a simple sentence yet you claim to know a lot!! Prayers have become necessary

So, if the rebels are as superbly equipped as you claim, why do they need air support from the west in order to overturn the tide that was firmly going against them?

Where are you running off to? There’s tonnes of evidence you are yet to provide!!!

Wacha nichemshe kahawa narudi kumaliza kusoma

Kuja uone vile jamaa inajifanya expert na haiwezi toa evidence

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