"Where do we draw the line?" The Law, Accusations & Theatre of the Absurd. (Very long...TL;DR)

Sex & Relationships
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Let me apologize for the length off the cuff…:smiley:

This will have some seriousness, and, some humour…though I think both men & women need to be vigilant because of what this ‘movement’ connotes for the future.
I’ll try to make this as short as possible, and make sure I provide snippets for the “ogwesclick” battalion…here goes.

So, we were having a conversation with my brothers yesterday about the recent flurry of sexual assault/harassment accusations.
Before I go on, let me ask, despite the obvious futility of doing so, that critique and related opinions be kept on topic. Yes, you know yourselves…:smiley:
Also, let me say right now that I do not condone any sexual harassment, rape or assault by any gender.

I had been wanting to post on the recent video on sexual harassment on public transport by the BBC featuring Anita Nderu. I will come back to that later.

But, yesterday, I came across this video post by @Tom Bayeye in a post by @dabu here. The video has now been taken down, so if you can post that video again kaka please do.

It was basically about Russell Simmons stepping down as Def Jam honcho. From that video, the things that got to me most was firstly, that these accusations were happening in the media, 10-25yrs after the fact. Secondly, that the merits are precariously based on a “her-word-against-his” foundation which has then been tried in the court of public opinion. Thirdly, is that a woman is to be believed because the man who is accused, who is not found guilty by due process, is influential and powerful.
Also, the woman who made the 2nd allegation, Jenny Lumet, in my opinion, had every occasion to say no, fight back, go to the authorities (especially because her father was/is influential in those circles) but didn’t.
What is the burden of proof? What of the statute of limitations?

I’m not going to riff on that at the moment, but I would like to contrast 2 cases, with reference to law & gender:

[ATTACH=full]142802[/ATTACH]

Case 1: Well off, blonde, oxford student, Lavinia Woodward, attacks her then boyfriend by stabbing him and throwing a laptop at him injuring the dude.

“Oxford Crown Court heard Woodward attacked her then boyfriend, who she had met on dating app Tinder, while he was visiting her in December.
She became angry when he contacted her mother on Skype after he realised she had been drinking.
[SIZE=5]‘Relatively minor’ injuries[/SIZE]
She threw a laptop at him and stabbed him in the lower leg with a breadknife, also injuring two of his fingers. Woodward then tried to stab herself with the knife before he disarmed her.”

Her sentence was commuted, and, she was let off because, the judge “described Woodward as “an extraordinary able young lady” and said a custodial sentence would damage her hopes of becoming a surgeon.”

She had attacked said dude on 2 prior occasions. The presiding judge is now [B]under investigation[/B]; “The Judicial Conduct Investigations Office (JCIO) confirmed it is investigating the judge’s personal conduct after receiving a complaint…The case was the subject of huge debate about inequality in the criminal justice system, prompted by the judge deferring sentencing and describing the attack as "a complete one-off”.

So, if the roles were switched, if the man was the attacker, how would this go?

Case 2: Instead of giving a synopsis, I’ll just let [B]the article’s intro handle that[/B] -
"[SIZE=4]Junior doctor’s career is in ruins after he indecently assaulted his Tinder date by grabbing and bruising her breasts during CONSENSUAL sex [/SIZE]
[ul]
[li]Pair met on Tinder before consensual sex after their second date, court told[/li][li]During the sex, the doctor grabbed the woman’s breasts, causing bruising[/li][li]She went to police and he was put on trial in Jersey for indecent assault[/li][li]He denied the offence but was convicted by magistrates after a trial" [/li][/ul]
The article goes on, “Despite consenting to having sex with Queree, the victim told him she did not want her breasts touched and accused him of using ‘excessive force’.
Queree has now been placed on the Sex Offender’s Register for five years - ruining his dream of becoming a doctor, according to his barrister.”

As you read, some glaring irregularities come up; he wanted to leave after her complaint - she didn’t want him to, they were both drunk, etcetera etcetera. According to the article;

“'She did not want him to leave and did not want to believe what had happened…'She wanted him to stay and discuss it. His demeanour then changed. He had tears in his eyes and said he needed to go and think about what he had done to her.
'He then stormed out the door. She was in complete and utter shock and texted him, imploring him to return…'She wanted him to come back and give an explanation and just could not equate his behaviour in the bedroom with his previous charming behaviour.”{ :DThis part here made me laugh)

Here’s the clincher:

'Some{:D} aspects of her evidence might be thought to be illogical, specifically why she would continue to consent to sexual intercourse with a man who had hurt her and why she would plead to him to return to the flat.

But here’s the rub:
‘She felt she was falling in love with him. She thought they were at the beginning of a relationship; a relationship she wanted to continue.’

Here’s where I say buyer’s remorse. She thought she was going to lock down a gentleman, gave up her goods, turns out lad was a freak, but, most importantly, he ghosted her afterwards. Legal redress ensues.
That’s my take. What’s yours?
Should the guy be on the sex offenders register?

The reason I made this long post is to ask talkers their opinions on where this conversation or narrative headed? All I can see is a huge negative for gender relations. It is already happening in a small way in the west, whom our intellectuals, pseudo & real, so love to ape.
This conversation is already taking place here. The main issue here for me is it is being had on social media, which might unfortunately prompt/give rise to legal policy.

Here’s a snippet, of this convo (in the UK) I stumbled upon, watch from 3:40 (Don’t mind the poof at the beginning, though you can look at him to ensure that your sons don’t turn out this way:D):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=id=8GvwYOfHXMM;m=3;s=38

What do you guys think, pinkies & blues? Where is this conversation headed? Where should it go?
Pinkies, you have sons, brothers, fathers, male cousins & nephews, what does this portend?
You also realise that this will apply to you guys too, eventually, regardless of the negative consequences?

Now, Anita Nderu (I know, I know…): My main issue is with the claims in the campaign, and those like it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RB3XgwSmmO0

According to the videos description, "More than half of women in Kenya have experienced gender-based violence on public transport, according to a recent study."

I mean, what kind of prevalence rate is that?? What is the statistical reality? That is a very bold claim in my opinion. And then NGOs and other agendas will push for laws that will create an environment based on spurious claims and research. Like the 'rape culture’ conundrum in the west, this needs to be debunked and then properly debated with sobre minds.

I have my own reservations about Anita’s claims also. I’m not saying they are untrue, no. But, it doesn’t help that the poster child for this campaign is a petite, cute, local personality.

I think the standard of evidence needs to much higher and people must use the law immediately or soon after the said assault happens. Media should only be a recourse if legal and police avenues frustrate a victim(s).

Anyway, because arguments may get emotive unnecessarily, let me leave it at that. Actions of individual men, or women, should not demonize a whole gender. But this is how the narrative is being cultivated.

In order for future application of the law to be effective, we need to be prudent and wise, and thorough, when facing these issues.

On a lighter note, the way things are going, maybe men will have to start recording their ‘escapades’. :smiley:Pinkies, how would you feel if a guy you like/want to sleep with/are attracted to, dropped a sex consent form like this, before he started touching you or on a date?:smiley:
May a few talkers can try this over the next month, as a joke, and tell us how their lovers react? Any takers?

[ATTACH=full]142762[/ATTACH]

Chemistry cannot be policed by government!:wink:

Have a good one talkers & a good week…

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Given the nonsense that is currently unfolding, even recording escapades will not be advisable. That recording could in fact be used as evidence that you did “rape” someone. If right now you can be sentenced on mere allegations, imagine if you recorded yourself, and at some point the woman moaned a little too loudly, then later claimed that she wasn’t moaning, but screaming coz you were hurting her. That’s it my friend, your fate is sealed.
In ancient days, when a woman accused a man of rape, it was up to her to show evidence that she’d been raped. Now someone can just show up 25 years after you interacted with her and claim that you “made me feel uncomfortable” when you worked with her, and that’s enough to end your entire career. Fucking ridiculous.

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Yeah…I hear you.
Things are not looking good. And most people, men, but especially women, can’t see where this is headed. We’re still a ways from that, but, if we’re not careful this will start growing here. Your life and character is assassinated on some social media platform without proof or due process, and by the time rectification takes place, the damage cannot be reversed. At the risk of tagging her,:D, girlciki was, to an extent, right in alluding to the “good times-weak men-bad times-strong men” progression. Thing is, good times also breed stupid entitled women, without foresight or forethought who are outraged by everything, even the most nonsensical or absurd.

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Sasa unatetea baradhuli unataka tufanye aje? Tuanze protests? What did the British guy run home to do, to cry like a girl? talk of role reversal.

Anafaa aongezwe a charge of leaving the pussy hot and bothered. And what was he bruising the breasts for anyway?

we are victims of our own making. when you used to hear our fathers say, “boys should not be in the kitchen!”

Na wewe hapo umeng’eng’ana ati that is old school advice. Cooking omelettes and whole chickens to impress her. Or you think your dad didn’t know how to cook? These are rules those old timers came up with after centuries of careful consideration. Now she knows you can cook so go ahead and cook for life.

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This is b.s. Men were created to take charge but we continually abdicate that role.

For instance you have a man with a little money in his pocket and he goes on a mission sowing seeds all over the place na hataki kujua what happens to all those kids. Now the govt. is left with no choice but to create very harsh laws against men. We chose to westernize and got rid of our council of elders ati ni ushenzi. So we will be judged by the new laws.

In the old days ulikuwa unaletwa before a council of elders, hao wasichana wote utaoa na ulee hao watoto wote! There were rules and customs even then. And it wasn’t just a punishment the community was actually trying to help.

So how do you expect a woman to bring up a boy child on her own today? You have thousands of young men in Nairobi running around unabashedly with names like Michael Joseph Njoki, Paul Kamau Wanjiru Or Kelvin Mwangi Wairimu.

Unataka Kelvin Mwangi Wairimu afunzwe na nani how to be a man na uwesmake alitwanga na akapotea zamani? We as men created this problem. Now you have a fellow bruising breasts and cooking whole chickens… he doesn’t know his right from his left.

Then you have men who spoil the girl child silly. She even becomes more like a second wife than a daughter. Who will ever marry and match up to this spoilt, over educated, entitled princess? Who?

There are no traditional classes to tell her this is how you treat a man. We got rid of those and adopted western values. And in the old days ulikuwa unafanyiwa research unaletewa bibi ana match wewe. Ati today you just want to swing the fishing rod and catch whatever you catch.

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This is exactly what I’m saying. What do you mean by damage cannot be reversed? You are a man. FIGHT.
Don’t just take it. FIGHT!! The guy who got his fingers cut by the lady at least something is being done about that judge.

And if you can’t fight then at least shout. Take that man Harvey weinstein for instance. It took him decades of hard work to build that career. Na ananyamaza tu. Just taking it. What the heck?

Hata kama you are guilty in some instances si unakataa where you know you’re innocent. One girl says you raped her and yet she’s in every other photo grabbing your waist lovingly. And the guy just seats there and takes the accusations. No reaction at all.

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Prostitution will solve all these problems.
Legalise it.
Once you buy punani you can ferk it until dust comes out.

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I have a hunch that this wave of sexual harassment allegations taking down prominent men is coming from “high up” not some random happenstance. The enemy of heterosexual men and women is not the feminazi battalion, but the gay community who are increasingly in positions of power and media influence. They want everyone else to convert and become gay like them. LGBTQ weirdos are seen as more cool than straight vanillas. Gay men want all the heterosexual men to themselves and vice versa with lesbians.
It’s getting to a point it may very well be a crime for a man to approach a female.
Creating fake animosity and friction between men and women is another way the heterosexual family will be destroyed by haters of all that is good.
For instance I’ve witnessed first hand the haterade between black American men and women. I used to work at this company where male afro Americans would openly say, “I don’t talk to black bishes” and the black gals would respond in kind, “n*ggers ain’t sh#t!”
Maybe it’s how the government interfered with the black American family life, the punitive child support cases, alimony, imprisonment for domestic violence. All I know is there’s a visceral, toxic hatred between black men and women in America. Maybe it started as a joke and went too far. Today, most African American men with a good jobs, well educated or sports celebs will not marry a fellow African American. If they decide to marry, which is rare, they go for Hispanics or whites. You can imagine how black women feel about that. We must be careful in our consumption of western life choices or perish like them.
Men and women must build each other up. Life is too short to keep squabbling for nonsensical “rights.” Let’s talk about human rights! Everyone has their God given role to play, so we complement each other.

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Oh, come on!

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Where does this animal called slay queen fit in all this?? Ama wao ni safi kama pamba

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@Bakayaro! A keen eye will also notice that Anita Nderu is currently doing a long term promo with Uber. I keen mind would notice the connection between that and the public transport article. A disappointed mind would ask her why she’d sell out to the BBC and Uber but an understanding mind would know that she did it for the money and it’s her life.

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Kevin Mwangi Wairimu…hahahaha

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Firstly, Nderu should drop a link to the pdf that contains that study. It should say who commissioned it and why.

After that, we will decide. But I think she’s blowing hot air.

Men, please, wake up, stand up, fight. What did Bob Marley say?

Social order has been destroyed in the name of feminism and gayness. Unfortunately the people being birthed today have no idea why there’s no order.

We destroyed a millenia of culture and we expect it to be undone when every one growing up doesn’t even respect their own parents?

Order begins at home. Create it there. Then we can move on to a greater stage.

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Hizi shida hutokea when there was a perceived historical injustice, now as a way to correct it, the pendulum is swung to far out such that it starts hurting the other side

Damn, could be true!

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I haven’t read the rest of your post but this caught my eye: How are mean supposed to take charge without grabbing a tittie, or a pussy? What we are being accused of is what we have been wired to do, Take charge!

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And on this issue of feminists this is not new and neither is it unique. For a fact Kikuyu women have always been tough and domineering throughout kikuyu history. They even fought alongside the Mau Mau. This is fact. You can also see the way Pres. Uhuru listens to his mother.

For a very long time the kikuyu were martrilineal and martriachal. The kikuyu clans are even named after the 9 daughters of Gikuyu and Mumbi. And Mumbi looked for a husband not the other way round. And Kikuyu women were rulers and one prominent leader is Wangu wa Makeri who was a very tough and ruthless chief. The mere mention of her name made grown men hide. If you refused to pay taxes to the white man then you carried her on your back all day.

Here’s the story
of Wangu Wa Makeri :
https://www.standardmedia.co.ke/article/2000051911/wangu-wa-makeri

And here’s an article about Louis Leakey’s research into the Kikuyu martriachal society:

http://www.theeastafrican.co.ke/magazine/434746-509930-dpqo3a/index.html

So the girl child in kikuyu culture has always been a leader and the vessel that brings life while the boy child was the… what’s the word…he was the little bitch!
Akina Anita Nderu are only channeling the kikuyu in them. And in a way due to this martriachal system the kikuyu benefitted and become dorminant as a tribe. Compare that to the pastoralist communities who were mainly patriachal and you can see the difference today. bado wako nyuma kiasi.
the Kamba were also matrilinial as are the Jews who believe anyone born of a Jewish woman isautomatically Jewish.

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Some solid points…
And yes, the breakdown of (some) our cultural mores and norms in favour of some ‘liberating ideas’ was/is a mistake.

And yes, to a large extent it is men’s fault. Maybe 60%. Hell, maybe more.

Women from our mothers’ & grandmothers’ generation have lost touch with their daughters.

Nature abhors a vacuum…and now…here we are.

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Itabidi kila mtu atosheke na ka arimis kake even a porn star is being sued for sexual misconduct during a shooting session !

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/4824111/james-deen-ron-jeremy-sex-assault-weinstein/

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:smiley: Kaka, this post wasn’t made because I feel like I’m being victimized.

However, you are right…the problem is, you need to give credence to current Zeitgeist that prevails over our current generation with regards to the power of the media, the fostering of virtue signalling, and the whole ‘outrage olympics’ taking place, especially in the west.

How do we help the common man?
If the wealthy men don’t fight back what happens to the common man.

Which is why I put up the case of the doctor, after referencing Russell Simmons and the growing allegations in the west.

It’s unfortunate but men must be more aware when they’re around women nowadays, especially in the west.

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:smiley: Yes and No bro. They’re already coming after the oldest profession in places like Canada, France, etc
Not to mention things can still go horribly wrong if one decides to target you.
Mainly in the west, however.