US/China - some perspective

[SIZE=7]What the Huawei battle tells us about US-China relations[/SIZE]
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Jonathan MarcusDiplomatic correspondent@Diplo1on Twitter
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Image copyrightREUTERSImage captionThe US has argued that Huawei poses a risk to national security
The US insists that its opposition to Huawei technology being used in key information systems stems entirely from security concerns: the fear of “back-doors” in the software or the relationship between the Chinese State and its major high-tech companies.
Of course, there may be a good dose of old-fashioned commercial rivalry as well. These are the technologies after all that will shape the world’s economic future.
But is there something more? Are we witnessing the first significant engagement in something that is much more than simply a conventional trade war?
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For years commentators have been talking about China’s rise: a shift of economic power to the East and the relative decline of the US. None of this was likely to happen without friction - but now though, the US is fighting back.
Spokesmen talk about preparing for a new era of global competition. In the first instance the discussion is military - re-orientating the US armed forces away from fighting insurgencies and regional wars to prepare for state-on-state conflict, with Russia and China as the peer competitors.
But in the struggle with China, the economic dimension is fundamental. At one level the Trump administration appears determined to use its economic muscle not just to constrain a company like Huawei, but also to force Beijing to open up its markets and change aspects of its economic behaviour that have long-concerned western companies seeking to do business there.
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Beijing, of course, sees something different going on - a developing campaign to contain China’s rise. And it may be right.
This battle is about much more than just business practices and commercial markets, it is a struggle over the most basic underpinnings of national power with huge strategic implications. To put it another way, the West is slowly re-learning the simple fact - one that Beijing has assimilated all too well - that economic muscle is the foundation of global power and that economic strength is the precursor of military might.
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Image copyrightGETTY IMAGESImage captionMr Trump has suggested allowances for the smartphone maker could be part of a trade deal

It is a truism that the West has taken for granted for more than two centuries, but the development of market capitalism and the military revolutions of the 17th Century were inter-linked. It was commercial and economic power that enabled the technology for military innovation, and this, in turn, facilitated the sea-borne empires of the 17th and 18th centuries and the steam-driven empires of the 19th.
When the US fully supplanted Great Britain as the dominant power in the West at the end of World War Two, for a brief moment the world had a single nuclear-armed global superpower. Of course the Soviet Union sought to rival the US in terms of its political and economic model, but it could not sustain the trappings of a military superpower over time. And with the collapse of Soviet communism, the US once again emerged as the sole global player with real military reach. This was the “unipolar” moment which now, in retrospect, seems all so brief.
The rivalry between Washington and Moscow during the Cold War years is instructive. Not because it is a parallel for today’s growing tensions between the US and China, but rather because of how different it was. There was simply no equivalent to the current economic rivalry.
The Soviet Union’s economy was largely cut off from the West - its technical development circumscribed and comparatively backward except in a few key areas. Western trade restrictions prevented the export of all kinds of technologies to the communist bloc.
China is an entirely different matter. Its huge economy and manufacturing base are hard-wired into the international economic system. It is probably a bit late to try to shut Beijing out of key sectors of economic activity. The pace of China’s rise is almost unique. Some ten years ago the US economy was still three times the size of that of China. No longer.
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Media captionHuawei’s vice-president for western Europe says the Chinese government doesn’t control it

In modern times the US has never faced an economic competitor of equal size let alone one that will out-pace it. This is entirely new. And it is, belatedly perhaps, prompting a fundamental rethink of the terms of economic competition: a rethink that puts economic power explicitly back where it always should have been, as the central foundation of national strategy and national power.
This of course is something the Chinese have understood all along. Nineteenth century China was the victim of western expansionism and buccaneering trade practices. It is a history that is well-remembered there, whereas in the West, the Opium Wars or France’s Tonkin campaigns - its early forays into Indo-China - are largely forgotten.
China’s “Belt and Road” initiative - its expansive plans for close economic ties with a chain of countries - was not solely about markets and access to raw materials, but reflected a fundamental strategic effort. This has been bolstered by a long-standing programme of buying up and developing essential port facilities around the globe.
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It was a conscious policy to secure China’s economic future as the key determinant of national power.
The “Belt and Road” initiative was undertaken with the understanding that the US and Japan would not necessarily be China’s main trading partners in the long-term. China has tapped into huge markets throughout the developing world - literally billions of people. The Chinese economy may be faltering right now (at least in relative terms) but as one well-informed US China-watcher told me, “they have engineering talent, a focused leadership, a market orientation and long-term horizons”.
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Media captionWhat does Google’s move mean for Huawei phone users?

President Trump has seemingly decided to draw a line against Chinese competition. A variety of regulatory changes in the US seek to curtail China’s access to US knowhow and critical sectors of the US economy.
But will it work? Will Mr Trump himself stay the course or enact one of his customary U-turns? His recent comments on concessions regarding Huawei seem to underscore his transactional rather than strategic approach to foreign policy. But this is an issue way bigger than Mr Trump and will challenge multiple US administrations to come.
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That though is a short-term concern. The fundamentals of the strategic competition between the US and China are clear and are not going to go away. Efforts to decouple their two economies will cause pain in the short-term for both (and probably in the long term too). But the concern is that the worsening economic tensions are carrying over into the security realm, raising real fears of conflict, either by accident or design.
Many of Mr Trump’s domestic political opponents, while accepting that there is “a China problem”, nonetheless disagree with the way he is setting about resolving it. International economic institutions need to be refreshed, they argue. Trade and security legislation need to encompass the challenges posed by new technologies like artificial intelligence. And they fear that Mr Trump is pursuing an altogether too-narrow and nationalist approach.
Above all, they say, allies need to be kept on side. If this resolves down to separate economic battles between China and Japan, between China and the EU, or between China and the US, Beijing will have the upper hand.
There was a time when the essential approach of the US to China’s rise was to seek to make it a “responsible stakeholder” in the international system. It was essentially saying that China would be accepted if it played by the prevailing economic rules.
But now China has risen and it is a process that will not stop. Not surprisingly it has some ideas of its own. Now much of the talk is about containing China. But this simply raises the question, is China simply too big to be contained?

Someone out there should now orchestrate a coup, even a revolution, in America and let them have a taste of their own medicine! Thank you, Putin, for showing us that it can be done! Everywhere you look the world is littered with the corpses and the ruins of victims that have been left behind by uncle Sam on his way up to power, or while up there trying to assert power!

Do you have any clue how many died due to communism when communists take over? Tukianza na hapa kwetu karibu… hapa Ethiopia na Somalia.

Kisha uteremke pale Angola.

You’ve never heard of Mohamed Siad Barre of Somalia and Mengistu of Ethiopia and his Derg military junta.

Enyewe 8-4-4 ni meffi. So much was left out.

Is a TLDR too much to ask?

Are we in competition over who kills more now? Those silly wars, such as the ones between Germany and her neighbours, what were those about?

Didn’t post for people without the intellectual capacity to understand but for those with a real interest in international relations and the world around them. You may move on to the next brothel post.

Yes China is on the rise, China may overtake the U.S well and good but what I do know is that if Huawei doesn’t build a new O.S and brand new state of the art microchips VERY SOON, then their poko sijui porcupine phones will start dying like a motherfucker.

Uko hapo umekatia slay queen wiki mzima kwa poko phone yako ya China halafu uzimiwe ka whatsapp… na slay Queen amepotea njia… na android ndio hio imekufa… huwes piga simu… na vile umembao… na room ushalipa… na fare ushatuma…

At that moment in time I don’t think you’ll care whether China is a super power or not.

China will always have the upper hand because they have built partnerships anchored on trade and a policy of non-interferance.

With the chinese, you just know they are there to do business, they do not give a fuck about your culture or political arrangements or your stand on the conflict in Gaza or Venezuela, they just want to make money and thats all.

Exactly how they thrive, rumor mongering,propaganda and superstitions!

Learn to clean up your article mkubwa. Toa spaces and other unnecessary links.

China played usa a long time ago, at the inception of its industrialization. Corporate america has its main manufacturing plants in China and its glitzy skyscraper HQ in usa. This is because China infrastructure is unparalleled in the world. Better than Japan. Road, bridges, cheap power, ports, fibre etc. Now factor in mass cheap labour. Its a capitalist dream. The CTO chief technical officer is based in China while the CEO is in the usa. For them to take on China they will indirectly be taking on corporate america powerful hand in washington and they decide how usa is run. The factory of the world is China. All these usa brands like apple, windows, amazon etc are made in China.

China is also facing a unique challenge that it didn’t anticipate to come about too quickly. As its workforce specialised, their wages gradually increased. Over the last 15 years the labour costs in China are above Indonesia, Vietnam, India, Philippines and Indonesia. They had a choice watch the factories move there or do it themselves. So they did it themselves. Chinese corporations build subsidiaries SEZ in all those countries exporting the manufacturing boom to those countries. It gave them soft power and leadership in Asia without firing a single shot. That’s how you find friction between all those countries with China over islands in south China sea and at the same time they are laying the red carpet VIP reception to visiting Chinese trade officials, factory plant investors and joint infrastructure projects at the same time. Yes let’s disagree on this but we are very fine with doing business together. China is now moving the same industries to Africa.

Domestically China moved 300 million people to middle class status in 20 years. Thats the same amount as the population of the usa. Its 300 million middle class in 1989 has now moved to upper middle class status. That’s s firm 600 million middle class market that every company in the west wants to sell their goods and services to. It can make or break your annual results. President Xi Ping is popular because he has started a $100 billion program targeting the very poor in China. Their target is to uplift 200 million people from being poor to stable low class status with jobs, income and participation in farming or factories. They will remain workers of the country with fair wages. So my point is China rise to economic superpower is inbuilt in China first before its projected globally. China is synonymous with Asia and will now be the main trade partner with Middle Asia thanks to Russia and now Africa through infrastructure build. Even Japan surrendered and moved the bulk of it manufacturing plants to China after its workforce aged and weren’t replaced by the younger generation. India could be a force but its too fractured within to be a force. Its several states and provinces are too distinct and unique such that I’m starting to question if India isn’t just a collection of states put together by the British by force. The recent 2 months long elections showed the different 30 states with large populations of average 50-75 million each that aren’t in the same page. Even the language Hindu isn’t the same or widely used as I expected. China has made plans to shift 100 million manufacturing jobs to Africa in the next 10 years through its SEZ projects. The precursor is the infrastructure build needed to support those manufacturing hubs. However that means Africa reliance on the west ends. That’s why its been fought. What does China get? Primarily main focus is 1 billion Africa market access. As a whole Africa is a straight replacement of North America market and its growing rapidly. If they manufacture and sell there they have a win win situation that the west can’t replicate.

thanks. Actually white spaces ni mimi nimeongeza. A long time ago when i took a course in newspaper design i was told the white helps to break the grey which improves legibility/ is less taxing to the eyes.

China had and has a huge trade advantage against the US. Trump is trying to fix that. Obama was a people-pleaser and didn’t want to rattle the snake.

I wish I could predict how this will turn out, but I most likely see a greater rise in Chinese trade globally.

@patco ache nikupe number ya ndugu yangu mdogo umsomeshe g.h.c wewe ndio master hapo

Focusing on the trade imbalance alone gives an inaccurate conclusion.

Yes China gets to sell alot more to the US than she buys.

Americans on the other hand own a huge chunk of the companies operating in China and exporting to the US, American entrepreneurs and shareholders are making alot more profit than they would in the US. Advantage to the US, the IRS gets fatter profits to tax.

American consumers too get to enjoy lower prices as compared to a scenario where the same stuff would be produced in the US at higher costs.

The US gets to pollute someone else’s environment sparing them the humongous rehabilitation costs China will have to absorb in the future.

American companies also get to gain a foothold in the largest market in the world, it will never be as lucrative as the US because the Chinese are a lot more frugal but more is always better.

Perhaps best of all, China isnt competing with the US on military might and imperialist schemes like the USSR did which spares Americans the cloak and dagger games of the cold war era, tranquility is priceless.

All your observations are right except this one. China knows the West will try to take by force what they cannot win in a fair competition. They are not asleep.

Problem is the way he is doing it. His style is hurting his own people and they are telling him so but he is not listening.

Would you say to fix a painful tooth requires a painful extraction process? Are we focusing on the now rsther than the tomorrow?

I found this interesting…

Sikuelewi.
But I will try to guess the answer.
I can say that it should be the painful extraction process if there’s no other way. If there’s another way, a simpler and better way, and you choose to use the harder, painful, perhaps even destructive way, then you must be a fool.