Okay, now let me ask, is there any scientific experiments, that definitively proves Krause theory, that the universe came from nothing? Or that life came from non living chemicals?
If someone told me today that he saw Raila walking around, and he wasn’t lying but truly believed that he saw him. I would conclude immediately that he was mad, or suffering from some kind of hallucination.
If 20 people did it, it would be simple. 1) They were telling the truth, in which case he never died and the funeral was a well orchestrated scam or worse, someone brainwashed them into believing something that did not happen. 2) They were lying for their own sinister reasons.
It would definitely not be a consideration that he rose from the dead.
As for what you’re saying about sources of evidence, that is perfectly agreeable. But you seem unable to see that your “evidence” is not eyewitness testimony and certainly not physical evidence. It is a story which has been manipulated through the ages to suit the purposes of real people.
You want us to talk about South Sudan?
We talked about redshift before and how it demonstrates an expanding universe. What you don’t know is that you have already observed highly red-shifted electromagnetic waves from the early universe many times! Every time you tune your radio or TV (older ones) to an unused station, part of the “noise” you get is in the form of gamma rays and xrays that have become so redshifted that they are now in the microwave wave range. They are now spread more or less evenly throughout the entire universe. You can read more about how Penzias and Wilson accidentally discovered it in 1964.
You can also check out this famous image of the CMB recorded over several years by the WMAP satellite:
Back to Lawrence Krauss. When Lawrence Krauss talks about the universe coming from nothing, he’s describing a scientific idea: a universe where all the energy adds up to zero (gravity cancels out the rest) could pop into existence from a tiny quantum fluctuation in an empty-looking vacuum. The strongest evidence we have comes from things like the CMB (above - measured by the WMAP and later the Planck satellite) and surveys of how galaxies are spread out. These give us strong clues that the early universe went through a rapid expansion called inflation, which fits with the idea of a quantum origin.
About life from non-living chemicals, this field is called abiogenesis. There is no single experiment that has made life from scratch under the exact conditions of early Earth as it is not possible to know exactly what they were. But scientists have done many experiments that show how individual pieces could have formed. The most famous is the Miller–Urey experiment in 1953, which made amino acids (the building blocks of proteins) from simple gases and sparks. Since then, researchers have shown how fats can form tiny bubble-like membranes (like cell walls), how the pieces of RNA can form, and even how simple RNA molecules can make copies of themselves, what’s called the “RNA world.” Scientists like John Sutherland and Jack Szostak have found realistic chemical paths that turn simple chemicals into more complex organic molecules. There’s a lot of evidence that all together shows that life could arise naturally from non-living chemicals, even if we don’t know the exact steps that happened on Earth.
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Again, you are writing from a point of ignorance and a lack of logical reasoning or any form of evidence. Upto now you have presented no evidence to support your claims. That is precisely why I keep asking you to provide evidence, yet up to now you have provided none.
The resurrection of Jesus is a historical fact that many people far more learned than you have accepted as true. Among them are some of the greatest scientific minds in history, such as:
- Isaac Newton
- Johannes Kepler - discoverer of the laws of planetary motion.
- Blaise Pascal - inventor of the mechanical calculator and pioneer of probability theory.
- Michael Faraday - pioneer of electromagnetism.
- Gregor Mendel - founder of modern genetics.
- Louis Pasteur - founder of microbiology and developer of vaccines.
- Max Planck - founder of quantum theory.
All of these great scientists, among many others, believed in the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ.
Now, coming to the example I gave: If a dozen (12+) Luos in Bondo were to come out and claim that Raila has resurrected and that they have seen him with their own physical eyes, the only way the authorities could prove them wrong would be to go to the grave of Raila Odinga and exhume his remains. The physical remains of Raila Odinga would be the only tangible evidence that could prove that these alleged eyewitnesses are lying.
Thank you for confirming that there is no single definitive scientific experiment that proves abiogenesis (the natural process of life arising from non-living matter).
This clearly shows that everything you are saying from abiogenesis to the Big Bang is based on theories for which there is no direct evidence, whether physical, testimonial, or scientific. This leads me to only one conclusion, what you are presenting is based on belief, not on established facts. In fact, your position requires far more faith than the faith I place in the Holy Bible, which clearly states that God created the universe in six days and that all human life including mankind was created by the Living God.
Life can only come from life. One kind of life cannot produce a completely different kind of life. For example, a fish cannot give birth to a bird, and a bird cannot give birth to a fish and this is according to how God created every life form. Each according to it’s kind.
One can only conduct an argument to a certain point of simplicity but not further.
These figures that you have mentioned are authorities due to their scientific insights. Their belief in god is completely irrelevant. Argumentum ad verecundiam is a logical fallacy that you must expunge from your mind if your arguments are going to be any good. In any case, the day you see a person who has risen from the dead, please let me know, then we can continue this argument.
The tragedy of your situation elder, is that you have come to believe that you know everything. Therefore, you are unable to learn anything. This has come out clearly.
We know for a fact that millions of species have existed on earth and over 99% of them have gone extinct. The human species is just one among these and there is nothing special about it. It is a product of natural selection, just like all the others. If you want to believe in the stories of a race that conquered your ancestors that a god made you, that is up to you.
“Synthesis of the Elements in Stars” by Burbidge, Burbidge, Fowler, and Hoyle (1957) is one of the most consequential papers in all of science because it established stellar nucleosynthesis, linking the evolution of stars (yes, stars do evolve and exist in certain forms for definite time period) to element creation.
Nucleosynthesis is the process by which new atomic nuclei are created from protons and neutrons or through the transformation of existing nuclei. It is the fundamental mechanism responsible for the creation of all chemical elements in the universe, from hydrogen to uranium. Hydrogen and Helium were mostly formed at the big bang, and nucleosysthesis continues to occur in the stars (for example the sun mostly fuses hydrogen nuclei to helium nuclei releasing the energy that enables life to exist on earth), in supernovae (stars above a certain mass which explode when they reach a terminal state), and when high energy cosmic rays split large atomic nuclei.
Now even the elements forming your body (mostly carbon, hydrogen, nitrogen and oxygen) have not only been fully accounted for, they happen to be the most common elements in the universe!
But of course you are special. A “god” created you right?
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Again, you are arguing from a point of view of ignorance and lack of logical sense.
Up to this point, you have not provided a single piece of evidence to demonstrate that the biblical eyewitness accounts are false. Not one. Let me repeat this clearly: testimonial evidence is a legitimate form of evidence which is admissible in any court of law, unless it can be proven unreliable. Simply dismissing it does not make it invalid.
Secondly, when I mentioned several learned individuals throughout history who accepted the historical truth that Jesus died, was buried, and rose from the dead, it was not an attempt to belittle you or attack your character. It was to make a simple point: the resurrection of Jesus Christ is not a childish fairy tale believed only by the ignorant and illiterates. Some of the most brilliant minds in human history have accepted it as historical truth.
Then you say, “The day you see a person who has risen from the dead, please let me know.” That statement only reveals that you place more confidence in your personal subjective opinions than in historical and objective truth.
The truth is, we believe many things we have never personally seen. Can you see oxygen? Can you see gravity? Have you ever seen Pontius Pilate? Or Alexander the great? And yet no reasonable person denies their existence.
Jesus not only rose from the dead, but He also made one of the most astonishing declarations ever spoken by any human being:
“I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live.” — John 11:25.
No sane man could ever make such a claim and expect to be taken seriously unless he could prove it. Jesus proved it by rising from the dead. The resurrection is not merely a religious belief; it is the very evidence that validates all His claims.
Jesus is the only one who can save you from the power of death and the grave.
I’m sorry, but that is merely your assumption. I do not claim to know everything. However, what I do know is this: there has been no definitive scientific experiment that conclusively confirms the Big Bang or abiogenesis theories and you have acknowledged this yourself.
Furthermore, there is no way nothing can create anything. Not in a hundred years, nor even in a million. To believe such an idea, as I have said, requires more faith than the faith I place in the Holy Bible. Consider a simple example: if I want to make glass, I need sand. But if I wanted to create sand itself, how would I do it?
Why should I be offended? Scientific discovery is something to be celebrated by all mankind as it increases our knowledge of nature, which is always a good thing.
What is offensive is when religious apologists try to ride on the coattails of science, pretending that the two are somehow equivalent can be discussed in the context of each other. Let me state the following as clearly as possible:
The motif of dying and rising messiahs/gods did not originate with Christianity. It is very much a pagan motif, but that’s not even the point. The point is that the man who would have been known as Yeshua ben Yosef was, to the best of our knowledge, a wandering jewish rabbi who preached as one would have expected in a land that was under foreign occupation. He was very much a man of his time.
And here we must pause. It is important to remember that there is no direct evidence that Jesus ever existed, and we don’t expect the evidence to be there. The strongest evidence is a casual mention by the Jewish Historian Flavius Josephus and the Pilate Stone - proving that Pilate was actually the prefect of Judea during the 1st Century CE. We simply agree that it’s more likely than not that Jesus existed, but its a massive massive leap of the imagination to go from there to saying that Jesus was “the son of god”. Now let us proceed.
Like any man, he must have died at some point. We cannot be completely sure how, since as a poor and inconsequential Jewish commoner, nobody would have bothered to record his death. This is where you must calm down and avoid flights of fancy. Death has nothing to do with gods, devils and religion.
I want you to repeat after me: Death is the irreversible cessation of all vital life processes necessary to maintain an organism as a whole. It represents the permanent stopping of circulatory, respiratory, and neurological functions - including the entire brain - resulting in the end of organismal homeostasis and the onset of tissue decomposition
There is no “coming back” from death. Only a mind tainted by religion can make such a claim because in scientific terms, it makes no sense at all.
You cannot get around this by claiming that the bible said this and that, or that there is testimonial and physical (!!) evidence in the bible that Jesus rose from the dead.
Jesus did not rise from the dead. It is a claim that arose within early Christian cults that, thanks to the Roman Emperor Constantine the Great, has made it to the present day.
There are other equally outrageous claims that you might find hard to accept. Did Muhammad ascend to heaven on a flying horse with a human-like face? Did he then lead Abraham, Moses and (yes) Jesus in prayer at Al Aqsa? Did the angel Gabriel bring the flying horse to him?
No? But there was eyewitness testimony. In fact, even better than the bible. The witness was Muhammad himself! This is much better than strangers.
Moreover, the hadith where the occurrence is recorded was classed as authentic by none other than Muhammad Nasiruddin al-Albani, a man who spent his entire life “authenticating” these things, confirming carefully that narrations came in an unbroken chain from the prophet. Would the prophet himself lie? Here, our Muslim brothers might have beaten you in the authentication department, but could it all be an imagined fairy tale?
You see, the moment you start accepting things that don’t make sense in nature, you must accept everything. You can’t pick and choose. It can’t be “my god exists but not yours”. Practically every culture has its own god and there is no exception for yours, whether you like it or not.
Sand is Silicon Dioxide. Silicon and Oxygen (and every other element except hydrogen and atomic nuclei above no 98) are formed either continuously during the existence of some types of stars or in large explosions called supernovae at the end of the existence of other types of stars.
Stellar nucleosynthesis was one of the biggest leaps of human understanding of the world around us. You should read more about it.
You will never see a recreated big bang. And by the way the proper terminology is the Lambda CDM model. The “big bang” was a casual dismissive term that a scientist called Fred Hoyle made on TV in 1949 because at the time he did not agree with it, leading to mass confusion that there was an explosion in space, when we are referring to an expansion of space.
What you can see, if you care to open your eyes, is evidence of the “big bang”.
The Cosmic Microwave background is red-shifted gamma rays and xrays from the big bang. You are an organism that relies entirely on water for your existence. Virtually all the hydrogen in those water molecules was formed immediately after the big bang.
You can continue to refute all this, but the evidence is right there in front of your eyes.
The gospels are not eyewitness accounts. The first book was mark which was written 50 years after the crucifixion.
https://ehrmanblog.org/was-mark-the-first-gospel-evidence-for-markan-priority/
You are writing a lot of things that are mish mashed together but ultimately prove nothing. At one moment you say Jesus existed and died; in the next reply you write that he never existed at all. So which claim is factual? These two positions cannot both be true. Please make up your mind!
I am also afraid that history is clearly not your forte, because your arguments rest almost entirely on presuppositions that have no historical facts or evidence to support them.
For example, you claim and I quote “scientific discovery is something to be celebrated by all mankind as it increases our knowledge of nature, which is always a good thing.”
On that point I actually agree. But what you seem completely unaware of is that Christianity especially Protestant Christianity played a central role in the rise and development of modern science from as early as the 16th and 17th centuries. (I’m sure you didn’t know that)
In fact, many of the greatest scientists of the Scientific Revolution were believers in Christ. Even more importantly, they were educated in universities that were founded and established by the Church for the very purpose of promoting learning and scholarship.
Consider some of the most famous universities in Europe: Oxford University, Cambridge University, the University of Cologne, the University of Paris, and the University of Montpellier. These universities were all started by the Church.
Cross the Atlantic Ocean and you will find the same pattern. Universities such as Harvard University, Yale University, Princeton University, Georgetown University, and Duke University were originally established by Christian communities the Puritans, Pilgrims, and other church groups precisely because they believed education and the pursuit of knowledge were important.
These institutions went on to produce some of the most influential scientists in human history: Isaac Newton, Robert Boyle, Johannes Kepler, and Max Planck, to name just a few.
Robert Boyle himself famously wrote that God provided humanity with two books: the Book of Scripture (the Bible) and the Book of Nature (the universe). So according to these scientists studying nature, was not seen as opposing faith, but as a way of understanding the work of the Creator.
So when you write statements such as, “what is offensive is when religious apologists try to ride on the coattails of science pretending that the two are somehow equivalent,” you are only revealing a profound ignorance of the actual history of science.
Nakupatia homework; Go study the history of scientific revolution.
And if you were to seriously study the history of the Scientific Revolution, you would quickly discover that Christianity was not an obstacle to science it was one of the major intellectual foundations that helped inspire and nurture it.
Furthermore, the claim that the idea of a dying and rising Messiah did not originate with Christianity is another assertion that lacks historical evidence.
There is no person in recorded history who died, rose from the dead, and never died again except the Lord Jesus Christ. If you believe there is another person, then the burden is on you to present the evidence: historical evidence, eyewitness testimony, or physical proof whichever!
Until such evidence is produced, such claims remain nothing more than story za jaba.
As for Islam, the less said about it and its legendary, non-existent prophet, the better.
Whoever told you this, lied to you.
Okay, let me assume, for the sake of argument, that Mark was written 50 years after the crucifixion. That would mean the Gospel was written around 80–83 AD. By that time, Peter ~ Mark’s main source for the Gospel and almost all of Jesus Apostles were already dead, and the Jews in Israel had been scattered among the nations after 70 AD.
Ndio nauliza, how do you create Silicon Dioxide from nothing?
You cannot point to a single thing I have said that is not a plain fact. You see, plain facts are self evident and don’t require ridiculous verbal acrobatics. I am simply stating obvious facts that any reasoning person can see. You can’t escape facts as you try to to convince us that something contrary to biological reality happened, and then go on to claim that your superstition (actually a superstition that another culture imposed on you) is real but other people’s superstition isn’t. I’m just engaging you out of curiosity, to see how a convinced religious mind works, and I can see it clearly. You are deluded, but you seem unable to see it, Here’s why. Your religious world has an internal logic of its own. Everything works as long as you don’t question certain outrageous claims that are the foundation of your world. You must accept that there is an all powerful god hovering everywhere that is in control of the entire universe but somehow also happens to be your personal god. You must accept that your god meddles in the affairs of human beings and will punish you with eternal damnation if you are bad or reward you you with eternal salvation if you are good. You must believe that your god is petty enough to take offense if you sin and also needs his ego stroked by being “worshipped” every now and then. You must believe that he turned himself into a man who was tortured to death by an ancient civilization in order to redeem you from your “sins”. You must believe that the man rose from the dead.
For those outside the bubble, all this is absolutely ludicrous. One wonders how a thinking human being could ever come to believe such things, but here’s the kicker. These blatant falsehoods have been drilled into your mind since childhood, by figures that had and continue to have authority over you. Effectively, you have come to believe what you have been told, over reality. You have not only lost the ability to question, but have become a proponent of the falsehood yourself. You have bought the internal logic, the bubble is your safety net.
The moment you question any of the foundational claims of your religious bubble, it will burst. That is your greatest fear.
There is no simple one line answer. If you’re not willing to roll up your sleeves and learn quantum mechanics, you will never understand how nature works at a fundamental level, and you’ll always be guessing and doubting.
From around 1900, physicists started noticing that classical (Newtonian) physics failed to explain the behavior of atoms and light.
Starting with Max Planck, and later through the work of Werner Heisenberg, Erwin Schrödinger, Max Born, and Paul Dirac, the framework of quantum mechanics was established.
Evidence points to the universe beginning as a “quantum fluctuation”, a temporary borrowing of energy from a “nothing” that was actually a restless quantum vacuum. This idea is supported by the Casimir effect (1948), which measures an attractive force between two metal plates in empty space, proving that the vacuum seethes with virtual particles. That fluctuation expanded in the Big Bang, and as the universe cooled, pure energy condensed into matter via E=mc2, a formula confirmed daily in particle colliders (like the LHC), where smashing protons at high energy creates new particle‑antiparticle pairs from energy alone. In the first moments, matter and antimatter were equal, but experiments on CP violation (first seen in neutral kaon decays at Brookhaven, 1964, and later at BaBar and LHCb) show that the laws of physics have a tiny bias toward matter. That bias left one extra matter particle for every billion pairs that annihilated. Those leftovers formed atoms, then the first molecules (e.g., Hydrogen). A process called “decoherence” forced quantum superpositions to collapse into definite states, just as Heisenberg’s uncertainty principle, tested in countless diffraction experiments, allows energy to borrow briefly from “nothing” in the first place. So molecules arose from nothing because nothing is a quantum vacuum, fluctuations become real via E=mc2, CP‑violation experiments explain the matter surplus, and decoherence turns quantum blur into the classical world of atoms and bonds.
Elder, hakuna facts umepresent, stop being delusional.
You are full of contradictions. At one point you claim that Jesus died; at another point you write that Jesus never existed. So how can Jesus have died if he never existed? That is the kind of delusion I’m referring to.
What facts have you actually presented to prove that Jesus did not rise from the dead? Nothing. You keep bringing up the religious card as a strawman, yet I keep reminding you that we are examining the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ from a historical and legal perspective, not from theology.
If you want us to discuss theology a subject in which you are still quite green then choose another day and time.
So far, I have given you several lessons from both history and law areas in which, until now, you seemed very unfamiliar. I have also listed individuals far more learned and intelligent than you who believed in the death, burial, and resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ.
Your worldview or belief that there is no God is not new. It has existed for ages, even since the days of King David. In fact, King David described such people like you as follows: “The fool says in his heart, ‘There is no God.” - Psalm 14:1.
So kindly present evidence or facts, if you will that clearly demonstrates that Jesus did not resurrect. And please present it from a historical and legal perspective, since that is the framework of this discussion.
Pilate must have been in a good mood. Normally he’d simply refuse unless ordered by a superior.
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