(Malachi 3:10) is it practical today ?

Malachi 3:10, KJV: “Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it.”

Interested too

It only applied during the old testament times. The only tithe you should give is your heart, mind and body.

No, it is still applicable.

The only thing is that in the new testament, you’re not given a strict quota to meet. In fact, the argument can’t be that you don’t give… The stronger argument is that you give more than OT folk. I mean if they gave 10 percent, they who were given the sanctification of lambs, what of you who received the very Son.

Also, you remember Christ was looking at the offering box?

He was interested in what people have the Lord! And when you give out of your excess, it doesn’t do much… When you give in relation to what you receive, that matters.

Read 1 Cor 16:1-2
On the first day of every week, each one of you should set aside a sum of money in keeping with your income, saving it up, so that when I come no collections will have to be made.

So that begs the question, what portion of your income?

Less than 10 percent?

The idea that you set apart a portion relative to your income is scriptural brethren.

In fact, we shouldn’t even be talking about tithes, 10 percent is too little. Give all you have every once in a while. Clothes the poor, feed the hungry.

Psalms 41:1
Blessed are those who have regard for the weak; the LORD delivers them in times of trouble.

So if you say you’re not commanded to give tithe in NT, it’s true. But it doesn’t exempt you from giving a portion of your income.

The question is what portion? Smaller than the OT folk?

Mimi kabla nitoe mūhothi lazona niangalie lifestyle ya pasta. Akiwa anakaa Mtu ameshiba he is driving while Mimi natembea mguu. Sitoi kitu juu I need it more than the pastor.

2 Corinthians 9:7
Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.

But this must be read in conjunction with chapter 16:1-2

So in conclusion: You should give, as commanded in chapter 16. And do it willingly, joyously, and not out of neccessity as directed by 2 Cor 9:7

Even Christ taught Giving alongside Prayer and Fasting. ‘When you give…’ Indicating that you would give. And this isn’t limited to the Church, but also to anyone in need, in as much as it is possible

True. The requirement of a steward is diligence. You’re a steward, in sense that you’ve been entrusted to have as much as you hold. Some turn shrewd and deals unworthily. So should it be that 10% is a standard? The first person to offer the tenth was Abraham when he met Melchizedek, Jacob vowed to give God 10% if He’d bless him. Did they set the standard? Yes, are we to follow it? Yes, it’s thus becomes a test of obedience to us-ward. But now do not give because you’re required to, give for your heart agrees. Anything that is not of faith is sin.

Further, differentiate between tithe(10%) and offerings (free will).

Actually, there’s no limit set… Tithe is actually an OT doctrine and is unmentioned in the letters of Paul and other letters to the Church. So, we can confidently say that we are not obligated to tithe… But we are obligated to give a fraction of our earnings and give heartily to those in need.

In reality, the Church is founded on freedom.we give out of love, not out of obligation like in the OT.

To illustrate:

You can give any amount you deem fit, as long as you do it cheerfully. It’s better to not give than to give begrudgingly.

Just remember that some blessings are directly connected to your giving.

Do you thus discredit OT? Does it mean they do not apply specificly today?

Not in its entirety. The LAW of MOSES had two aspects: The Physical Requirement (Inclusive of tithes, Sabbaths, ceremonial washings, foods, clothes, place of worship… etc) and The Righteous Requirement (No lying, fornication, etc)

The physical aspect is disregarded because it was a shadow of things to come.

The righteous requirement is sustained. So the OT is good for guidance, but the physical requirements are not binding. That’s why CIRCUMCISION is no longer an issue. So yes, the physical requirement is not binding. You’ll see this in the teachings of the Apostles and the relevant letters to the church. Nowhere, and I MEAN NOWHERE, is the Church told to keep the sabbath, avoid certain animals, wash in a certain way etc

You have said well, disregard those things that were shadows of things to come? Which then were those? Only one service, the sanctuary service and it’s requirements.

On regarding circumcision, was it regarding to the sanctuary? No, it was way before sanctuary. But the apostles (inspired by the Spirit of God) deemed not necessary and required the circumcision of the heart instead.

On regarding the Sabbath and the sabbaths, the disciples didn’t keep the special sabbaths that were of the sanctuary service ceremonies but kept the creation Sabbath (c.f. Acts 17:2, 18:4,11). Paul writes in Hebrews 4:1-11 reminding that there surely remains a rest for God’s people. Sabbath is not Jewish tradition, it was instituted from the beginning God resting after His work. That’s why the commandment begin with the word “remember”.

Also the other parts which you might deem unnecessary are able to “make you wise unto salvation". When Paul writing to Timothy, he tells Him you have known scriptures from your youth. What then were scriptures? The new testament? No, the only scriptures at the time were the Torah and the prophets. He further adds that “All scriptures are God given…for correction, for reprove, for doctrine…to furnish man of good works” 2Tim 3:16,17. This is to say that ALL the scripture still applies today, some to point us to understand other scriptures, some to furnish us unto good works.

True, but why do you say Paul kept the sabbath?

Because he went to the temple on the sabbath?

For clarity, can you find any text admonishing the Church to keep the sabbath?

There isn’t one. And mind you this was a Jewish tradition, so were it necessary, the gentile Church would have been taught as much. Even historically, the Church didn’t keep the sabbath…

So the Sabbath isn’t binding either.

And the rest to which Paul refers is the eternal rest in the Lord’s presence. The Saturday sabbath is but a shadow of what’s to come… The eternal sabbath.

And Paul went to the synagogue on the Sabbath to preach to those gathered there. The question is, was any Church ever asked to keep the sabbath… ie not work and all? NO!

In fact, Paul clearly argues that some hold one day special, others hold all of them equal… But none is better off Romans 14:1-5

So holding a day as holy isn’t mandated. Infact, the law of circumssition superceded the sabbath. If the eighth day fell on a Sabbath, the sabbath was broken and the child circumcised.

The case for holding the 7th day sabbath is very weak, I find. There isn’t a single scripture commanding the church to keep it and the earliest writings of the church still don’t command it.

Or maybe I missed something?

What’s your position? Is breaking the 7th day sabbath sin? How do you explain Rom 14?

This is not defensive issue. But here you missed something important, the Sabbath was not Jewish. If it’s Jewish then marriage is also Jewish, they were both instituted in the beginning. But God in fact tested them to see if they will keep “His” Sabbath. He gave also “His Sabbath” as a sign between Him and them.

KJV Ezekiel 20:12, 20
12 Moreover also I gave them my sabbaths, to be a sign between me and them, that they might know that I am the LORD that sanctify them.
20 And hallow my sabbaths; and they shall be a sign between me and you, that ye may know that I am the LORD your God.

The Jews were only commited the oracles of God. This is to say the custodians, they were just stewards. The first covenant God did make was with them, but the second covenant it was different, God now was no longer needing custodians, He’d now write His Laws men’s heart who are now the “New Israel”.

KJV Romans 3:1-2
1 What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision?
2 Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God.

Is the law binding? Is the 10 commandments binding? Or now 9 commandments binding?

KJV Romans 7:7
7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

Without law, there is no sin. If then there is sin, there is law.

Marriage was not a command, so that doesn’t hold. The question is the requirement to keep the 7 day sabbath.

Was the Church ever taught to keep the sabbath?

I think this is most important. If you argue that we should keep it because it was instituted in the begining, the question then becomes, did the Apostles interpret the scripture thus? Did they interpret the ten commandments as you do and conclude that the law to not kill is as binding as the law to keep the sabbath holy?

If they did, where is the evidence? Was the gentile Church taught to hold the sabbath?

I get your school of thought and it’s very valid. Most of the new testament were letters written to the churches in the minor Asia. They were mostly addressing issues arising within and contentions. Some of them heavily mentioned was circumcision, mingling with the gentiles, and sanctuary customs. Sabbath was not an issue, although some Christians thought to celebrate Christ resurrection instead. Did the Paul abolish the Sabbath here? Paul himself worshipped in the Sabbath going to synagogue reasoning with them and more often by the river. Some kept in remembrance of the resurrection, some thought the Sabbath was fixed and should be the seventh day of the week. No jot, no word, no change that direct the transfer of solemnity of the Sabbath to the other day. If God did rest, sanctify and blessed it then still today have the same significance.

The Sabbath has not been in the past been the subject of contention as been recently. It was not until most prophecies of Daniel and Revelation were understood deeply that the subject of worship is now sensitive.

I agree that the Sabbath was blessed in the beginning… But was the commandment to not work also instituted in the beginning or by Moses?

See, this is a law… Not comparable to marriage, which isn’t a law.

The idea that the 10 commandments are to be held in their entirety is void in NT text.

I ask again, did the Apostles read the text you do and interpret it as you do… Namely, that the Church should keep the sabbath?

All of the other 10 commandments are discussed and mandated upon the Church.

The Apostles were the custodians of doctrine. Can you find any text that obligated the Church to keep the sabbath?

Mind you Paul was an Apostle to the Jews… People who didn’t know the sabbath. Were they taught to keep the sabbath anywhere?

If not, why do you think that is?

In fact, Paul teaches that no one should judge the other on Sabbaths because they are shadows of things to come.

When you say that the seventh day sabbath is not included in the ‘Sabbaths’ mentioned, where do you base that assertion off?

Lastly, Romans 14 argues that 1 holds ALL days equal, another holds one day HOLY but none is obligated either way.

How do you understand Romans 14:1-5

I hold that no day is holy and all are equal. What does the explicit text of Pauline doctrine as stated in Romans 14:1-6 conclude of my position?

Romans 14
5One person considers one day more sacred than another;(F) another considers every day alike. Each of them should be fully convinced in their own mind. 6 Whoever regards one day as special does so to the Lord. Whoever eats meat does so to the Lord, for they give thanks to God;(G) and whoever abstains does so to the Lord and gives thanks to God.

Paul says CLEARLY that there’s nothing wrong with considering all days equal.

So in conclusion:

  1. I have given text that EXPLICITLY says that I do not sin when I consider that no day is holy and all are equal. Can you find explicit NT text that contradicts this position by suggesting that the Church should hold one day as holy?

  2. The gentile Church wasn’t commanded to keep the sabbath anywhere… Unless you can show such a law. All laws in the 10 commandments are repeated multiple times in NT text and required of the church. All laws, but the Sabbath law… True or False. If false, find NT text that asks the church to hold the sabbath as holy in the same manner you can find multiple NT text asking the Church to not lie, kill, have other gods…etc

  3. Let’s read Galatians 2:16-17

16 Therefore do not let anyone judge you(AE) by what you eat or drink,(AF) or with regard to a religious festival,(AG) a New Moon celebration(AH) or a Sabbath day.(AI) 17 These are a shadow of the things that were to come;(AJ) the reality, however, is found in Christ.

What in this text suggests that it’s only talking about certain sabbaths and not all.

I read it to mean all sabbaths because the Church is not asked to keep the sabbath and Rom 14 makes it clear that holding all days equal and no day sacred isn’t a sin as much as eating meat isn’t a sin.

Correct me if my reading of the text is wrong.

I beg to differ… The sabbath wasn’t in contention because it was universally accepted that it was not to be kept.

I can illustrate:

The Church was told about lying and murder… Not because they were in contention, but because they were required of them.

Why were they not taught about the sabbath.

What does Romans 14 say about not keeping or holding a single day as sacred?

And I get your position too.

But the idea that Paul worshipped on the sabbath meant that we should keep it isn’t quite accurate.

He was preaching to Jews who would converge on Sabbaths. That’s why he worshipped and preached to them then.

The gentile Church didn’t know about the Sabbath, so did Paul teach them to worship on a specific day?

Understand one thing, Paul acted like a Jew among Jews to win Jews.

He teaches the Galatians that they are not obligated to get circumscised and tells them they are bewitched for picking up the habit. When he goes to Jerusalem with Timothy, he circumscised him. Why? Acting like a Jew among Jews.

So, since Paul circumscised Timothy, does it make circumssition a NT requirement independent of what Paul says about it?

Why then should we take his worship on the Sabbath to be binding independent of Romans 14