Kenyan vs. Ethiopian Security forces..

:D:D:D Me you can literally his shit all way from Dar.

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Naendelea kusoma, hope you understand Swahili, am not that fluent in English.My main concern is Alshaab, how do we tackle this religious idea considering that your forces were recently attacked. I really envy your development spirit.

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I mistakenly thought he is the one calling himself @Jos Landos, but nada! I have realized that @Jos Landos is way too smarter than mugfull mdanganyika!

Different handle different style.
Further more some of the info here its on the internet.
We need some one who has been in Addis to ask hard questions.
My two cents.

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That is a very interesting question…

I try to be as nuanced I can be and please read my response with context. The economic growth has very much robust effect in certain parts of the country than others. Interestingly enough, though regions that have not seen the fruit of the economic growth are not the once that are protesting and alleging. It is the regions that have gotten the most out of the growth, who allege and protest, because 1) They wanted more 2) They got embroiled with identity politics 3)Because of so much economic activity their local authorities got so corrupt and, when they got to be audited by the federal government (there is an audit culture in Ethiopia that sometimes gets too repetitive and constraining) they decided to incite protests to avoid the audits. This actually occurred in just one region. In the largest region in the country called Oromia. The Oromia region is the largest region with 284, 538 km2 land mass. It also is an area that surrounds the capital Addis Ababa. That is an area, which is bigger than Uganda. Most of the economic activities is happening in there and most of the investors that are coming invest there. As you know, that create opportunities for ill gotten money to be made, especially by local authorities. The way they did it is by raising identity questions and creating smoking mirror complaining that Northern cultures and languages are dominating their region, as well as the country and they demanded the region’s language Afan Oromo to become a co-official language with Amharic. They used university students to stalk that fire. One thing I can tell you about Ethiopians especially the northern Ethiopians (Abyssinian) or Habasha, we are very stubborn people. Per that, the government, instead of handling the situation to calm and isolate the trouble makers eventually, it decided to plough on, crushed the protests and removed and prosecuted all the regional authorities that have been suspected in corruption. That really didn’t go well with certain “human rights” organizations that are camped in your country :wink: and decided to amplify it and created their own narrative. Other than that, yes there are some regions that have been left behind. The Gambela region bordering South Sudan, where our Nilotic people live and Ethiopian Somali region bordering Somalia, the Afar region bordering Eritrean port of Assab are three of the regions that are left behind. But they just started to pick up the pace now…

Now, your second question is very important to me. Because that is one of the beef that I have with the Kenyan media. Even you said that it is hundreds of Ethiopians that are crossing to Kenya. Remember. “Hundreds” is out of an almost a 100million people. Not only that, do you know that there are many Kenyan refugees that are coming through Moyale everyday? Because of ethnic conflicts and because Moyale Ethiopia is a better market and trading place to live than Moyale Kenya? But you know what? Ethiopian press is prevented to talk about them or refer to them as “aliens” as your press call us among other names. If any news paper calls a Kenyan in Moyale an “alien”, the editor gets thrown to jail. But I see Kenyan news paper gleefully reporting twenty or thirty “Ethiopian aliens” getting arrested and a local police chief giving a lengthy press conference about it and trying to raise his profile at their expense. Migration is a fact of life. There are Kenyan women that are migrated to so many Arab countries and I will get pissed, if anyone calls them names and disparage them. Let us not do that to each other. That is one of my misgivings about Kenyan press…

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Rarely do we get such objective discussions without getting hijacked. I love this …

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Great discourse.

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Excellent responses @Jos Landos

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Please gimme some details on this. I’m also thinking of transit via ADD. What are the main attractions if my layover is long ?

I have interacted with ethiopians and I know they are gentlemen, but most eritrians I have met have no manners. They are rude and love confrontations even when it is unnecessary

In order to keep itself in power, the system has created a jingoistic attitude and a bunker mentality with certain segment of Eritrean society. Especially, the youth. They were taught to feel besieged, since childhood. (Imagine, since grade 10, every single student enters a military camp and called ‘Sawa’ to finish high school) Probably, some behavior that you have noticed, when you interact with some Eritreans was because of that. Other than that, they are like everybody else. You can find really nice people, odd people, kind people and rude people, as you can find among Ethiopians, Kenyans, Ugandans etc…In terms of culture, they are typical Habesha. Very religious, stubborn and fiercely reserved…

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Among the most civil threads I have read in a while in this village. Credit to @Jos Landos for giving us a second opinion and allying some sense of factual ignorance we have on Ethiopians.
I personally had an Ethiopian Lecturer in uni, not very eloquent in English but excellent in content.
Now that you have cleared out some of the perceptions us Kenyans have on Ethiopia and it’s countrymen I would also want to hear from you @Jos Landos how do you perceive Kenyans generally with regards to Governance, social setup, economic and infrastructure set up e.t.c

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How do you view the newly constructed road linking Kenya to Ethiopia through the Moyale border. Are the Ethiopians upbeat about it? Again, Lapsset project is supposed to link us with you through infrastructure and the port of Lamu, do you think it will be viable since you also have a link through Djibouti?

Thank you Fourier,

Our general view of Kenyans is very positive and positively envious. :slight_smile: As I explained above, we are very envious of your press freedom. Even though sometimes the tabloid behavior of it annoy us a bit, we can’t get it enough. In that regard we really look up to Kenya. As people, Kenyans are very jovial and we sort of gawk at you :slight_smile: when we see your out going and extrovert nature as opposed ours suspicious, inward and introvert nature. Almost all Kenyans I know are good natured. For a long time, for many Ethiopians Nairobi for us has been what Dakar and Abidjan are for the west African French speaking states. Our sophisticated cosmopolitan. Now Addis is catching up. You also are very innovative. Even though we can often be entrapranurial, we are not risk takers. So, on the innovation side, you guys are way ahead of us. I don’t know much about the social structure of Kenyans, especially on relation between tribes. I don’t want to go by what I read here online. As much as you have a problem differentiating between Ethiopians or an Ethiopian from an Eritrean, we also have a problem to differentiate between Kikuyu and Luo (that is the only two I know, sorry :wink: ) Your judiciary way much more independent than ours, even though ours is moving very slowly to the right direction. But, there is something I beg of you guys. Please, please make your judges take off that silly blond rag on their head. I would not have said anything, if I thought it was originally Kenyan. But it is a colonial relic and looks so foolish on their heads. I think some of your parliamentarians ware that, too. In terms of infrastructure, I think we fully caught up on you and may be a bit ahead in terms of mega projects. The reason for that I think land acquisition is a bit harder in your country than ours and bereaucratic practices are much easier with us than yours… In terms of governance, I think it’s about ideology and philosophy. Capitalism and free market thinking has really taken root in Kenya, where as, in Ethiopia, we always loved a nanny state. For thousands of years emperors that people depend on their benovelence, then Stalinist Marxism and now soft socialism. So at this point, we feel we can’t live with out it… :slight_smile:

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Fantastic. And yes. I know the area very well and people are really happy about it, as it increases trade and so many cool stuff coming from Kenya that is not available in Ethiopia. This kind of stuff reduces and eventually eliminates insecurity and tribal conflicts that is very prevalent to the area…

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It’s always good to have a neighbour to challenge the status quo as it stimulates regional growth and acts as a wake up call in case there is slumber as it has been the case in the recent years in some areas in Kenya but we are now also moving on the right track save for a few challenges here and there.

As for the judges outfit haha! I think the current Chief Justice has tried since the situation was worse before in that we had the whole dress code inherited from our colonial masters. He at least got rid of the red robes. Maybe the next one will now do away with the wigs.

@Jos Landos I have a slight question. How is the issue of marriage between an Ethiopian and Kenyan or in that case a non-ethiopian? I recently had a conversation with an Ethiopian girl and she informed me that such marriages are frowned upon. What are the customs involved when taking a bride from Ethiopia? Do you pay dowry? I have been seeing an Ethiopian girl for the past few months and I can see us headed in that direction after a while…

Brother,

Well, I am a bit embarrassed to say that, yes. Often times it is frowned upon. But NOT for the reasons that you might suspect. The main reason is RELIGION. Orthodox Church, as its name indicates is a very very very (add some more very in it :slight_smile: ) conservative institution. Especially, ours version of Orthodoxy is so conservative, it dictates everyone’s life to the hilt. Because of its official status for thousands of years, the entire country’s culture and literally life revolves around it and even those, who are not of that faith have adopted the culture that the church promoted for millennia. I can give you a simple example that is relevant to Kenyans. When the late son of your former Prime Minister Raila Odinga got married to his Habesha wife, her and her familiy’s request was for him to be converted to Orthodoxy. Once he agreed to do that his race really did not matter. Therefore, your beautiful girl may ask you for that. If she is progressive she may not even bother with it. Just make nice with her family. You’ll be alright. Kenyans know how to make nice and make people laugh, so Good luck… :wink:

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I foresee hardships in the future after this confirmation. She is a kenyan-ethiopian so I am hoping I wont encounter these issues in the future…haha…But she is gorgeous and has the most beautiful eyes plus down to earth…she is worth the trouble…

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You know what Kenyans say to us Ethiopian guys?

“…Hey, your women are so beautiful. What the hell happened to you guys? You all look like their butlers, instead of their dates or husbands…” :D:D:D

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