Jesus Seminar rules out 80% of the words attributed to Jesus.

[Stormtrooper98]

Summary:
March 1991
The Jesus Seminar is a 200-member group of mainline biblical scholars from all over the country (US). The provocative Jesus Seminar on Sunday concluded six years of voting on what the Jesus of history most likely said, ruling out about 80% of words attributed to him in the Gospels and emerging with the picture of a prophet-sage who told parables and made pithy comments.

Virtually all of Jesus’ words in the Gospel of John were voted down by scholars meeting in Sonoma, including a pulpit favorite, 3:16, “For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son. . . .”

“Most scholars, if they had worked through the sayings as we had, would tend to agree there is virtually nothing in the fourth Gospel (John) that goes back to Jesus,” said Robert Fortna of Vassar College.

Much to the dismay of apocalyptic talkers such as @Christ the King ,@messiahette and @Beenie , Seminar fellows, years ago, voted down the apocalyptic voice of Jesus when he is quoted as saying he will return someday amid tumult and turmoil. Scholars felt that the doomsaying words were put on his lips to bolster the hopes of Gospel writers and their churches about 30 to 60 years after Jesus’ lifetime.

Some of the sayings believed to have been put in the mouth of Jesus by the Gospel authors and early believers in reflection of their hopes and fears include:

1.) John 3:16: “For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal life.”

2.) John 14:6: “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.”

3.) Mark 13:25, 30: (A series of apocalyptic sayings) “Then they will see ‘the Son of Man coming in the clouds’ with great power and glory. . . . Truly I tell you, this generation will not pass away until all these things have taken place.”

4.) Matthew 5:11: “Blessed are you when people revile you and persecute you and utter all kinds of evil against you falsely on my account.”

5.) Mark 10:32-34: “See, we are going up to Jerusalem, and the Son of Man will be handed over to the chief priests and the scribes, and they will condemn him to death; then they will hand him over to the Gentiles; they will mock him, and spit upon him, and flog him, and kill him; and after three days he will rise again.”

Full article here:
https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1991-03-04-mn-77-story.html

[Yahshuaonly]

@Stormtrooper98

Summary:
March 1991
The Jesus Seminar is a 200-member group of mainline biblical scholars from all over the country (US). The provocative Jesus Seminar on Sunday concluded six years of voting on what the Jesus of history most likely said, ruling out about 80% of words attributed to him in the Gospels and emerging with the picture of a prophet-sage who told parables and made pithy comments.

Virtually all of Jesus’ words in the Gospel of John were voted down by scholars meeting in Sonoma, including a pulpit favorite, 3:16, “For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son. . . .”

“Most scholars, if they had worked through the sayings as we had, would tend to agree there is virtually nothing in the fourth Gospel (John) that goes back to Jesus,” said Robert Fortna of Vassar College.

Much to the dismay of apocalyptic talkers such as @Christ the King ,@messiahette and @Beenie , Seminar fellows, years ago, voted down the apocalyptic voice of Jesus when he is quoted as saying he will return someday amid tumult and turmoil. Scholars felt that the doomsaying words were put on his lips to bolster the hopes of Gospel writers and their churches about 30 to 60 years after Jesus’ lifetime.

Some of the sayings believed to have been put in the mouth of Jesus by the Gospel authors and early believers in reflection of their hopes and fears include:

1.) John 3:16: “For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal life.”

2.) John 14:6: “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.”

3.) Mark 13:25, 30: (A series of apocalyptic sayings) “Then they will see ‘the Son of Man coming in the clouds’ with great power and glory. . . . Truly I tell you, this generation will not pass away until all these things have taken place.”

4.) Matthew 5:11: “Blessed are you when people revile you and persecute you and utter all kinds of evil against you falsely on my account.”

5.) Mark 10:32-34: “See, we are going up to Jerusalem, and the Son of Man will be handed over to the chief priests and the scribes, and they will condemn him to death; then they will hand him over to the Gentiles; they will mock him, and spit upon him, and flog him, and kill him; and after three days he will rise again.”

Full article here:
Seminar Rules Out 80% of Words Attributed to Jesus : Religion: Provocative meeting of biblical scholars ends six years of voting on authenticity in the Gospels.

1.Just because homosexuality,corruption and prostitution may be legalized in a constitution…passed by the most esteemed lawmakers,lawyers, parliamentary and senate committees…it does not make these acts wise and prudent for a society.Just because a thief steals,bribes a judge and the court lets them free in a court of law…it does not cleanse the thieves error nor make the thief innocent.Truth is truth nomatter how much we coat it with clever schemes to fit our desires.

2.Just because “some scholars feel” that certain things in the Bible do not support their views…it doesn’t change the truth.Truth is truth whether we agree with it or not.Yahweh is God and His Word will not be compromised to suit the perverted ways of man.For example… Just because u are a smoker,and you “feel” like smoking a stick…it is unwise for you to do it while in a meeting with your bosses or when the police pulls you over to check your license or even when you are about to sign a multimillion dollar contract with a prospective client.We do not do things in this world because we feel,we do them out of logic.Everytime people follow feelings rather than logic…they always pay the price.

Praise Yahweh

[Stormtrooper98]

@Yahshuaonly

1.Just because homosexuality,corruption and prostitution may be legalized in a constitution…passed by the most esteemed lawmakers,lawyers, parliamentary and senate committees…it does not make these acts wise and prudent for a society.Just because a thief steals,bribes a judge and the court lets them free in a court of law…it does not cleanse the thieves error nor make the thief innocent.Truth is truth nomatter how much we coat it with clever schemes to fit our desires.

2.Just because “some scholars feel” that certain things in the Bible do not support their views…it doesn’t change the truth.Truth is truth whether we agree with it or not.Yahweh is God and His Word will not be compromised to suit the perverted ways of man.For example… Just because u are a smoker,and you “feel” like smoking a stick…it is unwise for you to do it while in a meeting with your bosses or when the police pulls you over to check your license or even when you are about to sign a multimillion dollar contract with a prospective client.We do not do things in this world because we feel,we do them out of logic.Everytime people follow feelings rather than logic…they always pay the price.

Praise Yahweh

okay but just remember the gospels were written tens of years after Jesus by 3rd persons who were not eyewitnesses. Many supernatural events were most likely exaggerations of the authors for example even the most hardcore of Christian apologists agree this verse is an exaggeration: Matthew 27:52-“and tombs opened. The bodies of many godly men and women who had died were raised from the dead.”

[Yahshuaonly]

@Stormtrooper98

okay but just remember the gospels were written tens of years after Jesus by 3rd persons who were not eyewitnesses. Many supernatural events were most likely exaggerations of the authors for example even the most hardcore of Christian apologists agree this verse is an exaggeration: Matthew 27:52-“and tombs opened. The bodies of many godly men and women who had died were raised from the dead.”

I appreciate your research and we can have a discourse over this matter.However I once did not believe in Yahweh and at one point in my life, I did not eat food for one day and simply asked Him one question…“If You truly exist Jesus, Show me the truth.” What happened after that prayer changed my life completely.Just thought I should share that with you today.

Whatever you decide to do with this information is up to you brethren.Wish you all the best.

[Stormtrooper98]

@Yahshuaonly

I appreciate your research and we can have a discourse over this matter.However I once did not believe in Yahweh and at one point in my life, I did not eat food for one day and simply asked Him one question…“If You truly exist Jesus, Show me the truth.” What happened after that prayer changed my life completely.Just thought I should share that with you today.

Whatever you decide to do with this information is up to you brethren.Wish you all the best.

What happened after praying??

[Christ_the_King]

@Stormtrooper98 .Those words on the Gospels are true and legit brother. Hear me out and I genuinely hope it helps.

This is my encounter with Christ- for a while I was searching for the ‘‘truth’’, because I always knew since I was a child that life had a deeper meaning into it, somehow, I just couldn’t get my finger around it. And when I grew up a bit to get familiar with the word ''God" when I was a kid, something sparked in me. I always tried to do right and at the same time I blamed Him when something did not go my way, because as a child that was my understanding back then.

So my curiosity continued as I grew, I learnt of secret societies and researched of the evils they did and that was when I knew for a fact that Satan is real, also it started making sense that Heaven and Hell are real because bad people had to be punished and good people rewarded. I drifted to Islam, and I started considering it because of how moral they looked from the outside, how dedicated they were to the creator by praying 3-4 times a day, their women’s modest dressing and their overall religiousness. It was not like the normal Christians or Catholics. On YouTube I stumbled across a channel called “Merciful Servant” an Islam channel which I found to be interesting because the Imam would explain the afterlife, angels, Jinn, the Dajjal and Allah and I considered Islam, but somehow I was still empty bro, it just didn’t satisfy me.

So I continued searching for fulfilment as years went on. During this time I was a heavy drinker, I took some weed, I took some Valium, some Bromazepam, Phenobarbital, name them all. But nothing worked, I was still empty, depressed and thought of killing myself, to end it all (what stopped me was the fear of going to Hell because I still knew that place was real). Till today I do not understand what drove me to touch the bible, and brother I remember opening the book of Matthew, reading some few paragraphs of Christ’s words and right there and then my life changed. I straight fell to the ground, cried like I never did before, repented there and then for everything, all my years of addictions instantly left, my soul felt lighter, then a certain warmth filled my chest. Brother even I, till this day cannot not believe what happened to me. Words cannot do justice to explain what exactly happened. And believe God saved me because I was genuinely looking for fulfilment, and He ended up finding me.

So bro, I know sometimes I may come across as arrogant and malicious with my words, I promise that is not my aim. It’s the passion in me because I want everyone to experience what I did, to experience what David wrote in Psalm 34:8. I want you @Stormtrooper98 to come face to face with God’s spirit. I’m rooting for you brother, I really do. And I know for a fact that He is as well, that is why I’m writing this to you.

[jaluth50]

@Christ the King

@Stormtrooper98 .Those words on the Gospels are true and legit brother. Hear me out and I genuinely hope it helps.

This is my encounter with Christ- for a while I was searching for the ‘‘truth’’, because I always knew since I was a child that life had a deeper meaning into it, somehow, I just couldn’t get my finger around it. And when I grew up a bit to get familiar with the word ''God" when I was a kid, something sparked in me. I always tried to do right and at the same time I blamed Him when something did not go my way, because as a child that was my understanding back then.

So my curiosity continued as I grew, I learnt of secret societies and researched of the evils they did and that was when I knew for a fact that Satan is real, also it started making sense that Heaven and Hell are real because bad people had to be punished and good people rewarded. I drifted to Islam, and I started considering it because of how moral they looked from the outside, how dedicated they were to the creator by praying 3-4 times a day, their women’s modest dressing and their overall religiousness. It was not like the normal Christians or Catholics. On YouTube I stumbled across a channel called “Merciful Servant” an Islam channel which I found to be interesting because the Imam would explain the afterlife, angels, Jinn, the Dajjal and Allah and I considered Islam, but somehow I was still empty bro, it just didn’t satisfy me.

So I continued searching for fulfilment as years went on. During this time I was a heavy drinker, I took some weed, I took some Valium, some Bromazepam, Phenobarbital, name them all. But nothing worked, I was still empty, depressed and thought of killing myself, to end it all (what stopped me was the fear of going to Hell because I still knew that place was real). Till today I do not understand what drove me to touch the bible, and brother I remember opening the book of Matthew, reading some few paragraphs of Christ’s words and right there and then my life changed. I straight fell to the ground, cried like I never did before, repented there and then for everything, all my years of addictions instantly left, my soul felt lighter, then a certain warmth filled my chest. Brother even I, till this day cannot not believe what happened to me. Words cannot do justice to explain what exactly happened. And believe God saved me because I was genuinely looking for fulfilment, and He ended up finding me.

So bro, I know sometimes I may come across as arrogant and malicious with my words, I promise that is not my aim. It’s the passion in me because I want everyone to experience what I did, to experience what David wrote in Psalm 34:8. I want you @Stormtrooper98 to come face to face with God’s spirit. I’m rooting for you brother, I really do. And I know for a fact that He is as well, that is why I’m writing this to you.

why is this ‘revelation’ selective?

[Mr_Goodwill]

@Stormtrooper98

The Jesus Seminar is a 200-member group of mainline biblical scholars from all over the country (US).

Ofcourse they did. I’m not even surprised. Americans are the last people you would expect to tell you the truth.

[Nameberry1]

@Stormtrooper98

Summary:
March 1991
The Jesus Seminar is a 200-member group of mainline biblical scholars from all over the country (US). The provocative Jesus Seminar on Sunday concluded six years of voting on what the Jesus of history most likely said, ruling out about 80% of words attributed to him in the Gospels and emerging with the picture of a prophet-sage who told parables and made pithy comments.

Virtually all of Jesus’ words in the Gospel of John were voted down by scholars meeting in Sonoma, including a pulpit favorite, 3:16, “For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son. . . .”

“Most scholars, if they had worked through the sayings as we had, would tend to agree there is virtually nothing in the fourth Gospel (John) that goes back to Jesus,” said Robert Fortna of Vassar College.

Much to the dismay of apocalyptic talkers such as @Christ the King ,@messiahette and @Beenie , Seminar fellows, years ago, voted down the apocalyptic voice of Jesus when he is quoted as saying he will return someday amid tumult and turmoil. Scholars felt that the doomsaying words were put on his lips to bolster the hopes of Gospel writers and their churches about 30 to 60 years after Jesus’ lifetime.

Some of the sayings believed to have been put in the mouth of Jesus by the Gospel authors and early believers in reflection of their hopes and fears include:

1.) John 3:16: “For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal life.”

2.) John 14:6: “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.”

3.) Mark 13:25, 30: (A series of apocalyptic sayings) “Then they will see ‘the Son of Man coming in the clouds’ with great power and glory. . . . Truly I tell you, this generation will not pass away until all these things have taken place.”

4.) Matthew 5:11: “Blessed are you when people revile you and persecute you and utter all kinds of evil against you falsely on my account.”

5.) Mark 10:32-34: “See, we are going up to Jerusalem, and the Son of Man will be handed over to the chief priests and the scribes, and they will condemn him to death; then they will hand him over to the Gentiles; they will mock him, and spit upon him, and flog him, and kill him; and after three days he will rise again.”

Full article here:
Seminar Rules Out 80% of Words Attributed to Jesus : Religion: Provocative meeting of biblical scholars ends six years of voting on authenticity in the Gospels.

Makes sense. always felt if Jesus was as intelligent as he is portrayed some of his statements are egoistic such as, “no one comes to the father except through me” and “in my father’s house there are many mansions if it weren’t so I would have told you”…etc obviously fake, they came up with this to create a resurrection story coz humans are afraid of an end. They want an after life. Never satisfied with one, always wanting more. More wives,more attention, more of this life, and another “eternal life” afterwards…more.

[Lionheart]

@Nameberry1

… they came up with this to create a resurrection story coz humans are afraid of an end. They want an after life. Never satisfied with one, always wanting more. More wives,more attention, more of this life, and another “eternal life” afterwards…more.

I thought you loved life. Don’t you want to live forever? In fact I don’t think the notion of eternal life is that ridiculous, even without considering what is written in the Bible. If, as science tells us, matter cannot be destroyed, but it can only be changed in form, it’s not so far fetched to believe life (the soul) is everlasting. We may simply have no recollection of our past life because that serves no function now, as we could expect to have none of this one in the afterlife.

[LuandaMagere]

niliona 1 GB ni 20 bob pale safaricom , google uamke akili

[ATTACH=full]446575[/ATTACH]
[ATTACH=full]446576[/ATTACH]

[magreb]

@Yahshuaonly

1.Just because homosexuality,corruption and prostitution may be legalized in a constitution…passed by the most esteemed lawmakers,lawyers, parliamentary and senate committees…it does not make these acts wise and prudent for a society.Just because a thief steals,bribes a judge and the court lets them free in a court of law…it does not cleanse the thieves error nor make the thief innocent.Truth is truth nomatter how much we coat it with clever schemes to fit our desires.

2.Just because “some scholars feel” that certain things in the Bible do not support their views…it doesn’t change the truth.Truth is truth whether we agree with it or not.Yahweh is God and His Word will not be compromised to suit the perverted ways of man.For example… Just because u are a smoker,and you “feel” like smoking a stick…it is unwise for you to do it while in a meeting with your bosses or when the police pulls you over to check your license or even when you are about to sign a multimillion dollar contract with a prospective client.We do not do things in this world because we feel,we do them out of logic.Everytime people follow feelings rather than logic…they always pay the price.

Praise Yahweh

You do realise that you just contradicted yourself but being an intellectual dwarf, huwezi ona. You make an accusation against everyone which accusation just points back at you.

[magreb]

@Yahshuaonly

What happened after that prayer changed my life completely.

What happened and his did your life change? Ulimea makende ingine kwa kitovu? Christians are the most cryptic and weird fellows u have ever met. MTU anakwambia omba tuu utaona ile kitu mungu atafanya kwa maisha yako. Like dafaq does that even mean?

[Mambombaya]

@magreb

Ulimea makende ingine kwa kitovu?

:D:D:D:D:D:D
Mungu anakuona

[cave_man]

@magreb

What happened and his did your life change? Ulimea makende ingine kwa kitovu? Christians are the most cryptic and weird fellows u have ever met. MTU anakwambia omba tuu utaona ile kitu mungu atafanya kwa maisha yako. Like dafaq does that even mean?

:D…i only pray for forgiveness…kama kitu ilikua ifanyike itafanyika si lazima uombe ata.

[magreb]

@cave man

:D…i only pray for forgiveness…kama kitu ilikua ifanyike itafanyika si lazima uombe ata.

Usamehewe nini?

[cave_man]

si dhambi…are you an atheist

[Stormtrooper98]

@Lionheart

I thought you loved life. Don’t you want to live forever? In fact I don’t think the notion of eternal life is that ridiculous, even without considering what is written in the Bible. If, as science tells us, matter cannot be destroyed, but it can only be changed in form, it’s not so far fetched to believe life (the soul) is everlasting. We may simply have no recollection of our past life because that serves no function now, as we could expect to have none of this one in the afterlife.

But why are you applying scientific rules to supernatural concepts? Is it a scientific or theological conclusion that souls exist? Does a cow have a soul? If it does or doesn’t how are you able to confirm this?

[Lionheart]

@Stormtrooper98

But why are you applying scientific rules to supernatural concepts? Is it a scientific or theological conclusion that souls exist? Does a cow have a soul? If it does or doesn’t how are you able to confirm this?

Bear with me, I’ll attempt to explain the best way I know how. My understanding of reality is that science is not the opposite of supernatural knowledge, nor are these two broad fields mutually exclusive. Not to confuse issues, but I think that science is the objective, measurable, provable knowledge which can be attained through experiment, while the supernatural is formless and subjective, but it’s not any less real or present as what we can test and prove–we just don’t have the physical tools to test it with, and this is what marks the limitations of science. The problem is that the subject of study for both is one universe (the human mind) with all its varied thrills, complexities, doubts and fears. Science doesn’t solve all problems, the greatest scientists know that the more you know, the more ignorant you’ll feel, because you’re only scratching the surface of human phenomena. Theological conclusions therefore start where scientific knowledge ends, because science invariably leads us to conclude that we don’t know enough.

[Stormtrooper98]

@Lionheart

Bear with me, I’ll attempt to explain the best way I know how. My understanding of reality is that science is not the opposite of supernatural knowledge, nor are these two broad fields mutually exclusive. Not to confuse issues, but I think that science is the objective, measurable, provable knowledge which can be attained through experiment, while the supernatural is formless and subjective, but it’s not any less real or present as what we can test and prove–we just don’t have the physical tools to test it with, and this is what marks the limitations of science. The problem is that the subject of study for both is one universe (the human mind) with all its varied thrills, complexities, doubts and fears. Science doesn’t solve all problems, the greatest scientists know that the more you know, the more ignorant you’ll feel, because you’re only scratching the surface of human phenomena. Theological conclusions therefore start where scientific knowledge ends, because science invariably leads us to conclude that we don’t know enough.

This afterlife stuff is very complicated but I agree with @Nameberry1 It is all about extending life. In past folklore witches bathed with the blood of virgins to extend their youth…now Christians bathe with the blood of Jesus to extend their lives. The details may not be the same but the core idea is the same, trying to cheat death.