AH-64 Apache Part Two

Ukijua talanta yako ni ujinga, wacha kusomea hapa and unwatch thread.

As I had told the guys who requested an overview of the helicopter, Kenya does not need the it for various reasons. Yes the Apache is good at it’s job, has all the latest technology that the Americans could dream of but in this our beloved country, having it would be useless. Here’s why:

  1. Price tag.

AH-64E: New Build: $35.50 million (FY 2014)
Remanufacture from old Apache: $24.77 million (FY 2015)

http://www.bga-aeroweb.com/Defense/AH-64-Apache-Longbow.html

That amount is for the unit itself. You have yet to include training, cost of spares and maintenance and the weapons themselves. For it to be effective, you have to buy atleast six of them. With 35 million dollars, that is two Mi-28’s from Russia with change left for spares, armament and training.

There’s more important things that can be done with that money. As you know, Kenya’s airlift capacity is good but those Bufallos have seen better days as the air force’s punda. There’s this good plane from Airbus, CASA-295
http://www.deagel.com/library1/medium/2013/m02013041500003.jpg

Which can be configured to do a wide range of missions. In that photo was a test for an anti-ship missile. Ikiland igeuzwe troop carrier and back to the skies. Hii hata mzee Bju Bju atafurahia kukimbiza mess pale FOB Mombasa. It’s sold at $28 million

http://flaps-aviacion-aviation-luftfahrt.blogspot.co.ke/2012/01/comparing-airbus-c295-vs-alenania-c-27j.html

Wars are not won on equipment and troops alone, logistics muhimu. If you cant move the troops and supplies, that apache is useless.

  1. Use them against who?

Kenya’s position in EA leaves us very secure as we don’t have deep seated enemies (the somalis will take at least a decade to rearm).
The Ethiopians have Eritrea to worry about and furthermore there’s a mutual defence pact between us and them, intelligence sharing is at the highest levels and so no reason to come against us. If only I had evidence of Kenyan Military Intelligence operating with Ethiopia during it’s war with Somalis. I know, stories of the Giants next to Lwanda Magere

https://books.google.co.ke/books?id=k-ueqyV5ke0C&pg=PA835&lpg=PA835&dq=kenya+defence+pact+with+ethiopia&source=bl&ots=SD8d7yMt_d&sig=Qz4-fwYtTxB8ES0Qn3bK2mToeSs&hl=en&sa=X&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q=kenya%20defence%20pact%20with%20ethiopia&f=false

South Sudan have a lot of issues to deal with even before thinking of facing KDF.
Uganda are more of brothers and in case of anything, there’s other ways to deal with them without firing a single shot.
Tanzania is in a defensive posture.

Where and when will KDF ever get the opportunity to use them? Cattle rustlers arent that sophisticated. The helos we have now are more than a match for al-shabaab, having this is very unnecessary in this parts, tactics muhimu and that’s why there’s a defence college.

  1. Pesa ya taxpayers.

Running and maintaining those expensive aircraft on budgets like ours is not easy, ask the Ugandans and South Africans. Some departments za gava zitaumia because these aircraft will require a lot of resources to maintain them.

South Africa has a relatively larger economy than ours. they had a war with Angola and as is usual after wars, military budgets are cut. Even though it was cut, it is still significantly larger than ours

SA
defence budget: $4,610,000,000
external debt: $145,100,000,000
foreign exchange & gold reserves: $44,280,000,000
purchasing power parity: $707,100,000,000

http://www.globalfirepower.com/country-military-strength-detail.asp?country_id=south-africa

Kenya
defence budget: $595,000,000
external debt: $17,160,000,000
foreign exchange & gold reserves: $7,356,000,000
purchasing power parity: $133,000,000,000

http://www.globalfirepower.com/country-military-strength-detail.asp?country_id=kenya

Yes, South Africa has a bigger military therefore bigger budget. However, they bought the Saab Gripen which costs around the same amount (in order to keep it flying) as an F-5. Those jets are rotated between storage and reserve service because “The SAAF does not have the money to keep the jets in operation”
http://www.defenceweb.co.za/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=29831%3Aa-dozen-saaf-gripens-in-long-term-storage&catid=35%3AAerospace&Itemid=107

http://www.bdlive.co.za/national/2016/02/26/cuts-will-make-defence-force-more-of-a-casualty-say-experts

Same story goes for the F-5. Yes they are old that I agree but one thing at a time (and these points apply). As you may have seen recently with KDF buying armoured fighting vehicles in their hundreds, KDF is turning into a mobile force. Jasiri huyo aliingia juzi na some CS akaonekana akinegotiate for another one (ama alikuwa ameenda kuchoma pesa ya taxpayer). They will come, nyinyi endeleeni kujenga nchi tutapata pesa ya kumaintain hizo vitu.

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Kuna mahali nilisoma ati kumaintain US-made birds kwa hewa for an hour is such a costly affair that amounts in the tens of thousands of dollars region if not more. Any truth to this? Say something about the fuel consumption.

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Yenyewe kununua vitu ambavyo hatuna kazi navyo ni ukalulu! Lakini, @Jazzman, what about training 7 or 9 pilots just for the sake of it? So that, at least, their knowledge and exposure can be regarded as our asset.

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What! Gripen is expensive to maintain? I thought it was the cheapest in comparison to the well known models?
And how does it compare to Mig models… say Mig29m or the latest 35 which according to the Russian air force, are the most rugged fighter planes known. Naskia hata Ile place huwa zinaland is less maintained in terms of trimming and cleaning the runways etc.
And what’s your take on the sukhois. Me huona Kama hizo Ni kali Sana and are rugged enough to replace the F-5s and still run on the current budget

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Any jet is expensive to maintain, be it Russian, Chinese or American lakini hao Americans nao walizidi. B-2 stealth bomber inakula 169,313 per hour

Costly Flight Hours | TIME.com

Jet inakunywa mafuta sio jokes. Hii F-15 watu wanaimba inachoma 4 gallons per second
Environmentalists Against War

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Kuna air force pilots with some hours kwa ndege za mumarikani, hata kuna wale wamecross train na waarabu. Nitatafuta mbisha niweke

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Gripen sio expensive kumaintain, ni kama tu hizi F-5 lakini ukinunua mingi na hauna kakitu kwa mfuko, unakuwa kama hawa wakenya huwa wanatoa jalopy zao end month. Hapo kwa comparison ndio maneno inakuwa ngumu. Mig 29 ni cheaper lakini gripen iko na range mwenda na kutumia less fuel alafu pia itategemea ni nani umeendea akuwekee avionics. Gripen in avionics mwenda lakini Russians wanaallow mtu kujichagulia kile anataka, so unaeza nunua ndege empty, upige stopover Tel Aviv na uwe na mnyama tofauti

Napenda Su-35, ndio the latest one kwa Su-27 family. Kama wakuu wa KDF watafikiria kuenda huko, wachukue hii muone mambo na maneuvarability na atleast itakuja na the latest avionics lakini budget ndio imeanguka mtihani over 10k dollars per hour yet gripen na F-5 zinachezea 4-6k

Ngoja Chase Bank ifungue next week mbirrionare awithdraw kakitu yeye ni 1% ya ile 3% opus dei alitaja, nitakutumia uniletee kabird kamoja fully decked out, naona unaelewa hii mambo

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Tanzania are in a defensive pose inamaanisha nini mkubwa? its the second time you have used that phrase, in analysis of our neighbours

Saab Grippen=Lockheed F16 not f5

Their military is postured as a main objective to defend Tanzania. If you look at it’s capabilities, air defence pops out hard. They have a whole SAM battalion, two anti aircraft battalions and an air defence command. even their acquisitions. They replaced the old jets they had with this Chengdu F-7

http://q-zon-fighterplanes.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/Chengdu-F-7FS1.jpg

In this day and age of F-22 and PAK-FA, they’re resorting to a plane designed in the 50’s. It is capable but who will they be attacking with this?

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You forgot to read this part

as in the cost per flight hour

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Gotcha

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In the next few years whether we like it or not, we have to replace the F5 jets as they have finally reached their operational ceiling. Let’s give them a 5 gun salute for incredible service. We bought second hand F5 jets from Jordan and overhauled them completely to meet our current needs. However that wouldn’t be enough and wise for our future needs. So we still need to continue building roads, schools, hospitals but our neighbours have better jets which spooks our military intelligence. Uganda have 5-7 Russian SU-30 multi-role fighters. Ethiopia has SU-27’s.

I agree that the obvious choice is the SAAB Gripen, multi-role fighter, cheaper to arm and maintain. 10 minutes to arm, refuel and take off in a 800 meters runway!!! Even navy aircraft carrier crew will be impressed. The only concern is getting Nato-EU approval to buy it but currently that wouldn’t be an issue. At $60 million each its fair.

They only other consideration is from China at $30 million each Chengdu J-10

The airframe is constructed from metal alloys and composite materials for high strength and low weight, the airframe’s aerodynamic layout adopts a “tail-less canard delta” wing configuration. A large delta wing is mid-mounted towards the rear of the fuselage, while a pair of canards (or foreplanes) are mounted higher up and towards the front of the fuselage, behind and below the cockpit. This configuration provides very high agility, especially at low speeds, and also reduces stall speed, allowing for a lower airspeed during instrument approaches. A large vertical tail is present on top of the fuselage and small ventral fins underneath the fuselage provide further stability.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/86/J-10a_zhas.png

The aircraft’s internal armament consists of a Gryazev-Shipunov GSh-23 twin-barrel cannon, located underneath the port side of the intake. Other weaponry and equipment is mounted externally on 11 hardpoints, to which 6,000 kg (13,228 lb)[43] of either missiles and bombs, drop-tanks containing fuel, or other equipment such as avionics pods can be attached. Air-to-air missiles deployed may include short-range air-to-air missiles such as the PL-8 and PL-9, medium-range radar-guided air-to-air missiles such as the PL-11 and PL-12, unguided and precision guided munitions such as laser-guided bombs, anti-ship missiles such as the YJ-9K and anti-radiation missiles such as the PJ-9
http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh173/SPINNERS1961/ParaniJ-10A01.jpg

The cockpit had three liquid crystal (LCD) Multi-function displays (MFD) along with a Chinese developed holographic head-up display (HUD), all of which are fully compatible with a domestic Chinese advanced helmet mounted sight (HMS), claimed by Chinese to be superior to the HMS on the Sukhoi Su-27 sold to China.
http://www.pcaviator.com.au/store/images/D/0008%20-%202011-12-6_9-45-25-375-01.jpg

http://www.airforce-technology.com/projects/j-10/

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On Military transport i would just stick to the same Chinese company AVIC (Same company building the nairobi tallest building at chiromo westlands) and get

Shaanxi Y-9 or Y-8. Y-8 costs $35 million each and uses $8 fuel a minute. Y-9 costs $45 million each and uses $9 fuel a minute.

The Shaanxi Y-9 (Chinese: 运-9; pinyin: Yùn-9) aircraft is a medium-sized, medium-range transport aircraft produced byShaanxi Aircraft Company in China. The aircraft was developed as a stretched version of the Shaanxi Y-8F with greater payload and range originating from the Soviet Antonov An-12. The Y-9 is considered China’s effort to build a C-130J class transport aircraft.[1]

Shaanxi Y-8
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-We7aki4orZI/TuPloLXOPGI/AAAAAAAAB88/H9Dtg4ayZYI/s1600/Y8_china.jpg

Shaanxi Y-9
[B]http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-b_Me_DiVEIU/UHMbqSbtlmI/AAAAAAAAAHE/vkp3vIEUzqo/s1600/Y-9_3.jpg

Shaanxi Y-9[/B]
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-5ybSZn5JQSM/VRmzXCIbJ6I/AAAAAAAAChE/uF6QW3D7GxU/s1600/Shaanxi_Y-9_2.jpg

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-pr0lhd-Y6YY/TvmTPL0X_kI/AAAAAAAAG7Q/9t52F7_Obx8/s1600/PLAAF+Shaanxi+Y-9+Chinese++%25E8%25BF%2590-9+Yun-9+aircraft+is+a+medium+sized%252C+medium+range+transport+Y-8F-600+Shaanxi+Aircraft+in+China+IFR+tanker+AWACS+ZDK-03+AEW+ELINT+Q+ASW+Airborne+Command+Post+and+ECM+Gunship+w+g+j+e+ww+%25283%2529.jpg

On matters Gripen, it is purely Sweden. EU is not involved any where and since the Swiss voted against buying them, Saab will be looking for new customers hard!! If we start looking at Chinese models available to us, we’d never leave here

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Ok, didn’t know Sweden isn’t part of EU. what about NATO? Anyway its not that hard for KDF to get them, we have even visited the plant and tried them out.

I used the CASA because of it’s wide usage as a maritime patrol aircraft with anti-ship and anti submarine warfare capability there allowing KN to have some while the AF uses hers to support the army. With commonality between the two versions, spare training and maintenance would be cheaper

Here it is in airborne early warning configuration

Here in maritime patrol

http://www.ndcuk.org/userfiles/image/C295%20aircraft4.jpg

Anti submarine warfare

As a gunship

http://u0v052dm9wl3gxo0y3lx0u44wz.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/AC-235.jpg

Support wale wabaya…

https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpf1/t31.0-8/11082181_1376904725968496_276823427726070972_o.jpg?efg=eyJpIjoidCJ9

And after all is said and done, go back to being the punda it is

http://militaryaircraft-airbusds.com/portals/0/Images/Missions/Military/Transport/Pallets01.jpg

It is a member but EU doesn’t have a say to whom Saab can sell weapons to. This one I want more than any other

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Soma hiyo for future reference:

http://www.popsci.com/not-sexy-stealth-maybe-more-important-china-shows-new-cargo-planes

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